“Hacked by AI” fucking lol
“All my information about AI comes from watching Avengers films”
“All my information about AI comes from AI.”
A broken clock etc etc
Also, relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/2030/
Blockchain technology based (BBVS) could be safer but regular EVMs are still hackable
Trustless systems are always better than centralised systems especially when the government in power is also in authority to decide whether they continue to stay in power.
US has been blessed till now.
But look at Russian or North Korean elections. They also use paper ballots
I am confident that Putin is not gonna last if they go for a blockchain based voting system.
The problem is not being secure; it is convincing people that it is secure. Even the stupidest person understands that marking off a paper in a booth and then depositing it in a locked box is secure. The voting method must give voters confidence that their vote was counted, the election was fair, and the results are legitimate.
That gives so much more opportunity for human intervention.
A good locksmith is all it takes to manipulate the votes.
Even if you keep it under tight security and surveillance they can bribe the security.
In many countries there is a security camera placed over the ballot box which is livestreamed to the Internet
Just turn off the camera and manipulate all you like
In my state, here’s how it works:
- Receive ballot by mail
- Drop ballot off at a drop box
- Wait a few days
- Check online that it was received and the signature is accepted
- Check on election day that the vote was counted
To break that system, you’d need to also hack the website or manipulate the votes on election day. That’s a lot harder than manipulating proprietary software by bribing a software engineer somewhere.
In my country here’s how it works:
- Parties provides free food and transport to unemployed masses they know will vote for them
- Wait 3-4 hours in queue at polling station to receive ballot in person
- Drop ballot in secure box
- Go back to work for a few days
- See on election day that the party that spent the most on voter courting wins
How would you propose we deal with this when people who are working (and can’t take a day off to go vote) would come out in much smaller numbers than ones that have nothing else to do (and get free lunch and transit to and from the polling stations) and even when voting happens on a weekend you have to trade your only time off to go and vote out of the goodness of your heart.
I think this is one of the reasons for digital voting - I’d much rather be able to vote from work or home or anywhere when I don’t have the time to sit on a queue for 5 hours just to have my vote diminished by a group that isn’t politically active but loves a free lunch and something to do
I am not in favour of EVMs here.
However there are pros and cons for both systems
I am just saying if you go for an electronic voting system using an airtight blockchain like Bitcoin and ethereum to verify votes using a biometric database is the only system trustworthy enough because.
If you use multiple blockchains like these it would require 10 trillion dollars or more to get the computing and staking power to hack the system.
It’s inconceivably costlier than hacking a physical election.
Russia also has paper ballots and I can assure you we can easily kick out Putin with a blockchain based voting system.
Reminder that this fucking moron is pushing Twitter as a financial tool. He wants you to use X like you would use your credit card.
But voting machines are insecure?
He wants you to use X like you would use your credit card.
I won’t even use xitter like social media. Why in hell would I consider it as a credit card? Oh, I get it. The target audience is the idiot army.
He’s still pissed he got booted from PayPal. He cashed in, but they didn’t let him run it.
I agree. While we’re at it, we can also make election day a holiday and require employers to give workers at least a paid half-day off so that they can vote, and create a citizenship ID that is free and easy to get rather than using ID with requirements like a driver’s license. Then maybe we can try out ranked choice voting and eliminate the electoral college. You know, since we want the election to be fair.
Even his good opinions need to overhype AI…
Anyway, we all saw that Tom Scott video, we know it’s a bad idea.
Wow. I actually agree with Elon Musk about something for once, what a shock!
Tom Scott has a very good video explaining why electronic voting is terrible all around and it will probably never be secure.
Tom Scott’s video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkH2r-sNjQs Tom Scott’s video via the Computerphile channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3_0x6oaDmI&t=1s
That’s loads of BS. Manual in person voting is easily scammed, just look at voting in Russia. Fuck this shit, everything should be 100% digital.
I don’t get what’s wrong with paper ballots sent by mail. It’s convenient and easy, with a paper trail for recounts. It’s worked great in Washington for decades.
Look at my other replies.
Paper voting leaves a literal paper trail unlike electronic voting that’s always a total black box in all countries that have tried it.
Look, mate, paper voting simply doesn’t work. And Russia is not the only example.
If you think results contradict content of the boxes, then online voting just allows to do it on greater scale much easier.
No, online voting prevents malicious actors from scamming the voting process.
Manual in person voting is not easily scammed on a scale that can swing an election. The slow, inefficient, in person, physical process is a security feature.
Lol what?
A system being slow and inefficient makes defrauding that system similarly slow and inefficient. To affect an election run on paper ballots you have to somehow physically alter or insert thousands or millions of pieces of paper without being detected. This will mean spending large amounts of time and money and must necessarily involve numerous people.
Mate, are you high? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owSxq50-DsI
it absolutely is not easily scammed at all.
every single piece of paper is numbered and tracked. (tickets and stubbs, basically). all counting is done by multiple people and watched by anyone who wants. political parties are banned from voting premises.
even better: early voting, in person, up to a week or two before. no crowds.
errors happen about 1 in 1,000,000 with a maximum of a couple hundred, and are caught immediately.
there is no scamming. all of the USA’s voting problems are self-created.
Ahaha! Ok.
Not just digital but trustless decentralised blockchain based so it’s impossibly hard to manipulate
Well, he’s got that one right.
Elections should be as low tech as possible. Everything going on should be verifiable with your eyes and basic tools only.
Keep it simple and keep it monitored by at least 3 to 5 people at all times.
who cares if the counting takes a few days, as long as i can trust the results.
And dear fellows in the USA, for the love of god, move the voting day to a Sunday already.
who cares if the counting takes a few days, as long as i can trust the results.
I’ve never heard of in-person stations counting for longer than 6 hours.
move the voting day to a Sunday already.
It isn’t already? Then USA gets “worse than Russia” award again.
Check this article out, might change your mind: https://archive.is/UCAKM
Very Interesting, thanks!
Still I’m not sure if I would trust that system more than a handcount with at least six eyes present at all times.
Counterpoint: There’s a big difference between electronic voting machines and electronic counting machines.
The way we do elections in Canada, your vote is made on paper. The paper ballots are fed though electronic counting machines to get the initial tally, but the paper record is then kept and tallied up separately to check for discrepancies. This is both fast and secure.
Electronic voting machines, on the other hand, are an exercise in absolute insanity that security experts universally agree no one should be using.
Of course, Musk is railing against them because he’s drunk the far right Kool-Aid about stolen elections, but actual smart, educated people have been saying the same thing for a lot longer.
In a smaller local election a few cycles back, I got to trial a paper backed electronic voting machine they were testing out for people who have dexterity or vision problems.
You basically got the same paper ballot as everyone else, but then you slipped it into the machine and it colored the bubbles for you after you selected the option on the screen.
Then you took your piece of paper out and handled it like a ballot filled in by hand.Wasn’t networked and didn’t see anything that could tie you to a vote.
I got to share my appreciation for the concept, but concern about difficulty verifying it filled things out correctly, and the potential for touch screens to be difficult to use or act funny, all the difficulties of ux work to handle fixing an error, and the need for the UI to be exceptionally clear, which was difficult on the smaller screen with the larger font.
I think it also has screen reader support, but I didn’t use it, so I’m not sure.
