More important than opposition to the current system is the prefiguration of an anarchic one. So much online discourse is about attacking, a lot less is about building. I drew this to remind myself and others that confronting the state is only a part of the puzzle and building new systems without it is also important.

Licence (as always): CC-0, No rights reserved.

  • masquenox@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    2 days ago

    Since I took food as an example I’ll use that because we all need food

    True, but food is also the easiest one. Food sovereignty is not the only kind of sovereignty an anarchist society would require in order to be viable. There is also energy sovereignty, mineral resource sovereignty, technological sovereignity and more - and I rarely see anarchists engaging with those… perhaps because they are not as easily dealt with as food sovereignty.

    Instead of massive monoculture farms

    Monoculture farming has more to do with colonialism than profiteering - the latter is merely the method preferred by imperialist and sub-imperialist states to ensure the accrued power and privilege resulting from it stays with those land-owning elites who support the status quo. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with monoculture - certain things will simply be better cultivated that way, even in a decolonised society. Democratised food systems would be nice, though.

    supply chains thousands of miles long

    This is unavoidable if you intend on having any kind of industrialised society. You can’t expect an anarchist farming community to also build and design it’s own agricultural machinery - and that doesn’t even take into account the raw materials needed for production.

    food would be grown close to where people live

    This would make trade inevitable. Not all crops can be grown everywhere - and that means people will inevitably start trading for the things that aren’t locally available to them. That is, unless you violently prevent them from doing so - but doing that also means your revolution has already failed.

    Let’s be clear - this…

    through networks of community gardens, small-scale permaculture farms, and cooperative distribution.

    …does not food sovereignty make. When it comes to food production, an anarchist society is going to need far, far more sophisticated and better-supported food production infrastructure than what you are imagining.

    The tools and materials needed, (yes, even some that are industrially produced) could be made in worker-run, federated workshops

    I have no interest in a society where the height of technology is only the machinery necessary to produce a spade. In order to be viable, an anarchist society won’t just need workshops - it will require factories and large-scale industrial complexes, supported by well-established (and extremely large) scientific and technological institutions. Only a relatively small amount of all of this can happen in a localised matter - even in a fully-democratised and socialised society (which is what an anarchist society would have to be).

    I know, I did a shit job of explaining it

    You did a shit job of explaining it because you don’t understand it well enough - just like Einstein famously said. I would go further than that - I’d also say you also don’t understand the world in which this proposed economic system would function well enough.

    You know, there was this absolute doomer - Mark Fisher - who opined that imagining the end of the world was easier than imagining the end of capitalism. I disagree - imagining the end of capitalism is not so hard… as long as you stop obsessing over replacing capitalism and begin understanding that a post-capitalist society will, instead, be built on top of a capitalist society. Ie, a historical process that actually has precedent.

      • masquenox@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        15 hours ago

        I remember reading through this all more than a decade ago… I had my quibbles with it back then, but in general there’s a lot of good stuff in there.

        Now… take a look at all the anarchist “influencers” on youtube, or just the generalised discourse you see in anarchist online spaces - and tell me if you see the disconnect.

        • Val@lemm.eeOP
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          14 hours ago

          neither the youtubers nor us online anarchist can provide a solution to this problem. To solve this problem you need people with experience of heavy industry alongside environmental experts to coordinate using self-managed principles. A bunch of propagandists (which is what we are) do not have enough understanding to create and maintain these processes. Our job is to get people to collectivize and start thinking critically of authority so they would be empowered to create an environment where they can do everything they already do without someone constantly looking over their shoulders.

          Essentially: Leave the job of figuring out how to do things to the people. Or as AFAQ put: Is there a blueprint for anarchist society? https://anarchistfaq.org/afaq/sectionI.html#seci2

          • Val@lemm.eeOP
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            14 hours ago

            I also saw your comment earlier in the thread that was on the same topic:

            Knowing what something mustn’t be is not nearly enough - one must know what something must be in order to build it.

            When talking about anarchy the only thing we can talk about is what it mustn’t be. Because “what it is” is something that only be answered during the process after all of the different voices come together to build something. Or to use a quote from that AFAQ paragraph: “revolution should not only be made for the people’s sake; it should also be made by the people.” [No Gods, No Masters, vol. 1, p. 141]

            As anarchists we cannot build anything individually. Only after we have collectively come together and figured out how to work together can we look back and describe what we have made. When we say “organize” we don’t have anything specific in mind because that would go against the ethos of self-determination. No anarchist worthy of the name should have a concrete idea of what anarchy looks like. Sure you can have approximations and speculation but you cannot say with certainty what it is your building because that would require you to be able to read the minds of everyone contributing.

            • masquenox@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              6 hours ago

              neither the youtubers nor us online anarchist can provide a solution to this problem.

              That’s a grand old way of saying that anarchists should only be comfortable and content with being edgy propagandists.

              To solve this problem you need people with experience of heavy industry alongside environmental experts to coordinate using self-managed principles.

              So where are they, then? Where are these discussions taking place? Where is the theoretical discourse that makes preconfiguration an actual possibility happening?

              Do you know of any?

              Our job is to get people to collectivize

              You are not going to get the working class collectivised with nothing but empty propaganda. The working class isn’t dumb, you know… they will always side with that which is more concrete - you know, that very thing anarchists seem afraid to offer?

              Leave the job of figuring out how to do things to the people.

              Are you not of “the people?” It seems to me that leaving all the really difficult stuff to “the people” has almost become an orthodox holy cow for anarchists these days… that must be why they assume screaming “organize!” at everybody will someday (somehow) magically raise anarchism from out of the political leper colony it presently finds itself in.

              When talking about anarchy the only thing we can talk about is what it mustn’t be.

              And why is that?

              all of the different voices come together to build something.

              Oh, certain voices are coming together, all right… but the anarchist one doesn’t seem to be in the room where it’s happening, does it now?

              As anarchists we cannot build anything individually.

              Nobody is saying that they should.

              When we say “organize” we don’t have anything specific in mind

              Yes. I know. That’s why it isn’t working.

              No anarchist worthy of the name should have a concrete idea of what anarchy looks like.

              Says who? Some Beardy McDeadguy, perhaps?

              Sure you can have approximations and speculation

              Ie, an actual theoretical grounding? There are only so many ways in which you can build a building, you know - it doesn’t hurt to actually know that BEFORE you are forced into building it under the most exacting of conditions.