Context?
His argumentation is dumb.
But even more so, IF the bourgeoisie were promoting pro-trans stuff. It would NOT be suprising that the bourgeoisie would ALSO be promoting anti-trans stuff. It fans the flame of this “culture war”which according to communist theory, would distract people from realising the “true divide” in society is class, and workers to unite.
TLDR: He’s clearly a conservative of some sort because his logic is incompatible with communist theory.
This is in fact what Russian bot factories are actually doing. And not just around trans activism, but around everything they can use to increase hatred and decrease social cohesion in the west. Here’s one source that talks about this problem: https://www.amazon.com/Putins-Trolls-Frontlines-Russias-Information/dp/1632461293
They’re doing it pretty well.
hm can you link to an example of posts that fits the description “pushing you to distract trans activists”?
Those threads are generally embarrasing already when they’re happening, but especially in hindsight – nevertheless here’s one recent one I greatly enjoyed having https://sopuli.xyz/post/15328469/10919769
Yeah that thread is pretty embarrassing. If you like, here’s a post on the subject of definitions and category boundaries from a rationalist perspective. It’s arguing p much same thing as @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world was talking about, but imo in a more compelling way https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/21/the-categories-were-made-for-man-not-man-for-the-categories/
Great article, thanks for that.
Quote from its 4th section:
then I ought to accept an unexpected man or two deep inside the conceptual boundaries of what would normally be considered female if it’ll save someone’s life.
I think the confusion (in my case) is that even though I think male and female are well-defined concepts based on biology, this fact does not preclude doing something special for the benefit of the remaining 1% who don’t fit the definition. And it also doesn’t preclude having a sexual identity that differs from the biological ones.
So I don’t understand the leap from what I’m saying to accusing me of being transphobic, and by extension, evil in a somewhat religious sense. This is where it seems to me that the discussion is fucked.
And the accusation of being anti-scientific I thought was just wrong, but that’s fine.
Lost me at ‘Why do they need to be “rooted out”?’.
Welp, they’re a piece of shit.
Yeah kind of buried the lede, you don’t need to unpack political ideologies to understand the hatred in the first response.
Is this your own conversation with him?
Yeah, I spoke with them.
Butd transphobes in quotation marks, bans everything he considers “sinophobia” even if you just mention literal policy in china. why are tankies so weird about so much stuff
Authoritarianism is a mental disorder. You can never expect reasonable thought from them
They do not understand the concept of gaining grassroots’ support through the use of education.
Don’t equate authoritarianism with mental disorders or disabilities. Authoritarians love targeting the disabled and it has nothing to do with it. People being miseducated, propagandized, and their insecurities leading them to want authoritarians in control has nothing to do with mental disorders
I really mean it though. Authoritarianism is a trauma response to being abused as a child. Our brains when raised in an authoritarian household that punishes us through physical violence like spanking becomes much more likely to seek authority from positions of power in adulthood, and if there becomes a power vaccuum or a shift away from top down authority, we transform ourselves from the follower to the leader. Whether or not authoritarians victimize people with mental disorders and disabilities is immaterial. They victimize every single group they can marginalize because they were ultimately empty from the childhood trauma that they’ve glossed over and turned into a positive aspect of their upbringing. Anytime you hear “my parents spanked me, and I turned out find” you are hearing a twisted mind grappling with an extreme trauma and justifying the shitty person they’ve become because if they don’t, it means they haven’t survived their core trauma yet
freudianism is pseudoscience, as is most discourse around “child traumas” (spanking = trauma? really? that’s absurd concept creep). Just look at the recovered memory movement.
While it often took weeks or months, by all accounts, the therapists were remarkably successful at convincing patients that their minds had hidden horrible abuse memories.
because childhood memories remain in the liminal period of awareness, you can convince yourself that personality is built on childhood experiences. It’s an insane tabula rasa and simply not true.
wants strong government = beaten as a child is a terrible pop-sci take, exactly the same as chuds saying all gay men were molested as children
(spanking = trauma? really? that’s absurd concept creep).
Please stop. Anything can be traumatic. Two people can have the same experience; one receives trauma and another does not. You likely know people who have trauma from parental violence. This isn’t rhetorical, the things you say affect people.
- Yes. Fruedianism is psuedoscience. That’s why I’d never deal in it.
- Saying childhood traumas don’t shape us is fucking embarrassing when you’re trying to present yourself as being in the know
- Saying spanking isn’t traumatic makes me think I don’t even have to deal with the rest of what you say
- Yes. Recovered memory is a bunch of bunked up bullshit. Again. I’d never deal in it. You really are focused on tearing down what I’m saying based on shit I never said
- Yo, you think fucking cihldhood memories end when you start having more awareness? We’re talking about the entire lived experience of being a child in an adults household. That shit ends when you leave for college. Again. You’re really focused on saying I’m saying something I’m not saying, so actually, genuinely, fuck off.
- Saying this is a pop-sci take is probably the only real thing you said in all this. And there’s a difference between “wants a strong government” and “wants a dictator” and that’s what I was addressing. I’ll drop some links and let people coming across this decide which of us is basing what they’re saying off current understandings of how brains work
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The horseshoe theory applies to them
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They’re Soviet conservatives. So they have all the shit takes conservatives in the US have, they just hate the US instead Iran or whoever the US hates today.
It’s easy to understand them when you realise that their entire ideology starts at “anything the US does or says is bad” and continue from there.
- The US supports Taiwan and is against China? China good, Taiwan bad.
- The US supports Ukraine and is against Russia? Russia good, Ukraine bad.
- Israel, Palestine, same thing
- Bosnian and Rwandan genocide happened? Well the US says so, therefore they didn’t.
- NATO bombed Serbia over their attempted genocide in Kosovo. NATO is the US, so Serbia didn’t do anything wrong, but Kosovo is bad.
- And so on, and so on…
Once you look at it through that lense, even their most wild takes suddenly become very consistent.
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The US has been the grand champion of capitalism. That is a fair criticism to level against us. Its a criticism most of us share. We’ve done some fucked up shit and acted as a force multiplier making smaller conflicts into bigger conflicts with more killing and more suffering. We do this less because our politicians believe in doing the right thing and more because it maintains to neocolonial status quo. Where I draw the line with tankies though is that they are ALSO engaging in force multiplying neocolonialism. Russia is invading Ukraine right now because Putin is big mad about losing control of soviet colonial holdings. What I advocate for is a dismantling of both US capitalist colonialism AND Soviet Bolshevik colonialism. You can’t be a tanky and Anticolonial, too
I think it has to do with complete distrust in western news and government (WNG). They can discount anything WNG says; especially when, it goes against their belief that the US is bad.
I believe we live in the most sophisticated propaganda machine ever developed but the folks who are a part of it mostly don’t lie. They’ve got the same problem the tankies have but reversed. The folks who work in WNG believe the US is good. They naturally distrust and minimize any info that would conflict with their beliefs.
There’s a lot of cognitive dissonance.
The only way I can navigate my belief in the fundamental inaccuracy of information is acknowledging it and accepting I don’t have enough info to be certain a lot of the time.
So picture a political compass. “The right” think they’re in a corner marked as pro corporations/pro individual freedom, but are actually not quite there given their desire for government to control other people
Most of “the left” are anti-corporate more or less and disagree on individual freedom.
Tankies are pseudo-intellectual nuts. They are orthogonal to the political compass
This context just makes you both look silly.
That is a false equivalence as I did not state hate speech
I’m not sure how this is hate speech from nutomic? They’re not necessarily saying anything bad about trans people as far as I can see, only that the bourgeoisie have nothing to do with it? Or what am I missing here
Looks at the terms they used.
Ok sorry I’m not seeing it, which terms? Genuinely asking
“Biological men” is a transphobic term to describe trans women
This is even sillier
Their reply prior to the borgeoise rant was downright odd, you’re right about that.
Welcome to !linux@programming.dev
Dude straight up banned you for the fact that actions have consequences. Frankly I’d wear getting banned by him as a badge of honor. Sure, what you’re experiencing is also considered consequences, but I think it was worth it. You have my support, new friend
Thank you. It does feel good standing up for other people <3
he sounds like hes pointing out hypocrisy on someone elses comment
am missing somethimg?
Ah, observe how the tankies come in to defend transphobia.
Yeah. That transgender is not a “topic”. It’s human and doesn’t have to be repressed any more. And haters hate that
it sounds like this person is counter arguing with someone else who made it a topic
No it sounds like they think transgenderism is a topic that is promoted, not a human quirk
Who is that douche?
Lemmy lead dev
Too bad the LW admins are too busy sucking off the .ml admins to defederate from them.
I use Jerboa and have already blocked the @lemmy.ml instance. There were calls to make that a thing with lent itself but I don’t think it ever happened.
There were also suggestions to do more of the defederstions in a “soft” way, by means of adding the instance to the block list of any user on the instance that wants to defederate it. Reversible by any user that wants full access with their main user.
From what little I understand about how Lemmy works and what the goals of the Fediverse are, this sounded like a much better way to do things.
Lemmy’s options for blocking and restricting are too limited, and it’s also a bummer there’s not an option for providing a reason for a block or restriction in the federated instances view. I think it all ties into Lemmy’s issue with “moderating tools are not an emphasis”
I used to be hopeful for Lemmy.world. that time has passed me by. Now they’re in the good riddance pile with sh.itjust.works. I’ve come to respect the beehaw admins the more time passes and the more it becomes obvious that was the move. Those instances don’t take moderation serious, and as a result they’re festering danger zones. You get a lot of good takes from Lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works users who don’t realize instance choice says something about you, but the overall tone of those two instances and Lemm.ee is not an overall tone I’m interested in experiencing as my general instances
I’m sorry if I misunderstand, but are you saying a good instance heavily engages in tone policing?
If I’m not misunderstanding, I hope you realize that would imply you only want to ever read a word from like the gentlest 2‰ of humanity.
Is it a pre-requisite to be a smug douche if you’re going to run a social media platform now?
Man… I miss Tom.
He develops it, doesn’t run it
If you make the platform, you can influence it through design decisions. It’s far more subtle than what spez did, but it’s still an effective method of control.
If they do, it gets called out, like the slur filter from a while ago
Forks can and will exist though, so it’s not all bad
I’m looking forward to mbin, Sublinks, and piefed being primetime ready
Update 2: Someone is mad
Excellent work! That’s one for the fridge
Just want to point out this unban you got:
Yup, I appreciate the good people out there!
Any idea who that is?
The second lemmy dev: Nutomic.
damn. feel bad for ya for dealing with them. They’re pretty awful people.
@Beaver@lemmy.ca So sorry you had to hear this.
But this isn’t the first or last time the lemmy devs go off the deep end. Come check out !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works for a whole range of extremism the developers actively endorse and encourage
Average Lemmy.ml user.
Communists are being pretty explicitly anti-liberal, and they make that a point pretty often.
And is becomes clear eventually as you see their posts and read their comments that these people aren’t misunderstanding liberals, they’re pretty aware that both in the meaning of the word and in practice, “liberals” generally want people to be free from shackles and free to do most anything. Typically summarized along the lines of “as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone, do what you want”.
Communists don’t agree with liberalism.
Communists want to demand much more of people and permit much less. They have much more in common with Putin’s extant but inflated voterbase than they like to admit. Even with Putin not being a communist.
Communists don’t even agree with communists
I’m not a liberal by any stretch.
I’m sure you’re not. Conservative and authoritarian is the way the middle of this century is going.
LOL you live in a different reality. Also, MLs are authoritarians. Do you believe otherwise?
Just go ahead and conflate outright tankies and ML’s with the entire communist space, sure, whatever. You ended up with “Communists want to take your toothbrush” level of analysis just because you paint too broadly.
The problem with liberalism isn’t that they champion liberty, it’s that they are woefully incapable of challenging systems of power, and that just enables the present biases and power imbalances in the system, ultimately always leading to fascist tendencies and sometimes an actual slip into fascism.
And that’s the beef the communist community at large has with liberals. They would theoretically be an ally, but will actually align with the fascists more often than with socialists/communists because they know fascists will ultimately still preserve upper class business interests.
I won’t say that your critique isn’t salient, it does fit in with what a lot of tankies seem to believe, as they regularly champion state power, but it always irks me when people only interact with online jackasses and then assume that all people who subscribe to a similar ideology share in those opinions.
Communists regularly act like they couldn’t be militant for liberal ideas. That the very act of getting serious requires dropping the tricolore banner and shedding the rainbow cloak to wield the hammer and sickle.
As if specific allyship to the repestedly failed methods of communism is necessary for the fight, but fighting to reimplement and expand on the occassionally very successful methods of liberal, welfare focused, regulatory and tax heavy Europe and America is seen as completely nonviable.
Spitting on pre-Reagan nation builders and embracing miserable failures whose only success was rallying and overthrowing, with no intelligent followup. Communism is dogmatic, it is stupid. It is technically bad at solving the problem of inequality.
As if everyone else who has given much thought to solving it was wrong, unless they embrace Marx specifically, and embrace him wholly, not just in part for a few important controbutions in an otherwise not very useful body of literary works.
This almost reads like satire in the context of my previous comment. I say you paint with too broad a stroke and don’t engage with communist ideas but only with a subset, you double down. I say liberals can’t grapple with the inherent flaws of the system and are unwilling to think outside it, you demonstrate it.
Where do you think you got the ideas for worker’s rights and heavy taxation of the wealthy? You think social democracy isn’t just one facet of the socialist critique of capitalism? You think you just fell out of the coconut tree?
I have no interest in adjuticating your point of view seeing as you’re unwilling to enage with mine, but the fact that you think all communists are marxist-leninists is comical. Even more, there are plenty of communists who aren’t even marxists. And not just communists, the whole left of liberal space is far more diverse than that. There’s anarchists, there’s anarcho-communists, there’s mutualists, syndicalists, on and on we go. There have been decades upon decades of work and thought put into the current, and it looks far more different than you could apparently fathom.
Once again, I ask you to stop looking at what internet ML chambers and anti-communist propaganda claims communism to be. There’s a lot more out there that you might perhaps agree with, if you were willing to engage in anything more than milquetoast tweaks to an inherently unjust system.
I say specifically Marx gets credit, but he is not a man with endless brilliant solutions.
And the communists I talk about are the ones I see. The core of the movement. That includes the majority that are much more ignorant than I, whose main interest in these ideologies is purely vibes and aesthetics with a couple of arguments stored away in the back of their mind.
Not the niche thinkers who most of them haven’t read.
These are our letters to eachother. Conversations that may as well find an audience of one as a million. Those who print their words on paper are not nearly as prolific as those who share them freely in this environment.
You lose modern politics reliably because you do not understand them. Your only surviving stock to champion the cause are either small and struggling, or they are no longer your champions at all. The movement never lasts, because it’s passionate, but stupid.
What the fuck is that guy on about???
#JustTankieThings
It defies logic.
The Olympics thing is misinfo that spread around after a boxing match https://www.snopes.com/news/2024/08/02/imane-khelif-olympics-boxing/
No I know about that.
But what the fuck do trans have to do with the bourgeoisie???
If anything most of the ones I know are anticapitalist.
@cyborganism @GammaGames There’s a particular category of “leftist” who, to put it gently, have a greatly simplified view of the world in which “the only war is class war.” They regard social issues such as anti-racism, feminism, queer liberation as distractions from the “true” cause of bringing about a new economic system - unimportant at best, active interference invented by the ruling class at worst.
Basically, they’re narrow-minded bigots.
I’d argue that they aren’t entirely wrong, just coming to the entirely wrong conclusion.
It absolutely benefits the 1% to have people fighting about stuff that keeps them out if the crosshairs, but the solution isn’t to be an asshole and stamp out any attempts at progress in culture and acceptance. The solution is to accept people and progress cultural stuff faster to unite people better.
If you’re going to be militant about the class war, don’t you want as many allies as possible? Within reason of course, don’t want bigoted assholes.
That’s the thing. Dessalines and Nutomic are the bigoted assholes the rest of us should be telling to fuck right off because they’re getting in the way of our class awakening. They think they’re adovocating for true liberation when their way of going about it slows things down. They are tools of capital holders when they pull shit like this
@wizardbeard Oh yeah, totally - it’s not like the 1% doesn’t use these things to its advantage. Don’t take my comment as making the mistake of ignoring that. It’s just myopic at best to act like other forms of oppression can be ignored as long as we ensure economic liberation. And a lot of the people spouting that opinion… well, there’s a reason they think bigotry isn’t a problem - they suck.
Like Europeans who are targeting the Roma people.
Not sure how that relates? Thats just Europeans being racist which is extremely common and irritating
I think all bigotry can be used as a wedge to divide working people from their own interests. I wouldn’t be surprised if Romani bigotry was used to control Europeans in the past. However, I think immigration is the most important wedge in the European context
Which is so fucking dumb because they’re actively resisting the class awakening that we all need to have. That these divisions and culture wars we have are a distraction from the true communal love we could all experience and push to topple the hierarchical system. These fucking regressive morons are standing in the way of their own revolution
certified .ml moment
Its nice having terrible social skills sometimes to the point where I make people drop the mask quicker.
It also helps that nutomic and Dessalines are both certifiable.
It’s kind of a shame. I really like the platform and the concepts inherent to federated social media, but it really sucks that the maintainers of the codebase are hostile to any ideology but their own.
I wanted to support them before but now I’m hoping someone forks their codebase.
Piefed is a beauty. Made to be easily to contribute to, great morals and focus on tools for safety, ability to subscribe to posts for notifications sorts like the forum days, compatible with lemmy and discourse forum federation iirc and the main developer seems really chill and like he cares about making a good and healthy platform
Hello,
Taking the opportunity to ask a Piefed contributor: do you guys have any plan to implement “New comments” filter?
I asked about it a while ago in this issue but it never really got prioritized (which is fine!) https://codeberg.org/rimu/pyfedi/issues/142#issuecomment-1808892
I think if you opened a separate issue about it it would get more attention as it was probably read in that thread and he didnt have a response in the moment and now he probably forgot the question is in that issue
(I just contribute feature requests and my opinion so idk to be honest but i would like the feature)
Alright, I just did! https://codeberg.org/rimu/pyfedi/issues/275
The codebase is extremely shitty, instead people opted for complete rewrite.
how so?
There are several bad architectural decisions and when your architecture is wrong, the quality of the code itself doesn’t really matter (to be more specific, I was talking about architecture in my previous comment, not the code itself, I don’t know Rust so I can’t really comment on that).
To fix the architecture, major parts would have to be rewritten, almost making it a different codebase, because pretty much no part would be left unturned.
Look at Sublinks
How is that a stance on transgender people? This seems like you’ve gone fishing for something controversial for a hatchet job.
Just to be clear, the person in question is, I assume, the Algerian boxer, who was born female.
Tankies don’t be stupid challenge.
Difficulty: IMPOSSIBLE
@nutomic@lemmy.ml can you comment on this statement, or at least its veracity? Kind of fucking alarming even if it was a private correspondence. Sure as hell gonna make it (more) impossible for me to convince my trans siblings to join Lemmy if shit like this is allowed to fly. And I’m sure a lot of us are in similar boats.
It’d probably help if you told them about blahaj instead of trying to pick a beef with a single code monkey you don’t have to interact with.
I very much do not want beef with @nutomic@lemmy.ml. I want clarity.
I decided to actually tag him because maybe seeing a voice that’s “new to him” would get him to respond since he hasn’t responded yet anywhere (as of writing) and I didn’t see anyone else having tagged him.
I commented in public because I want to be transparent about what I say and what he says in the low chance he responds, so that there’s no mucking about with screenshots and “leaking private messages”.
I want him to understand that this is a serious issue that could jeopardize his life’s work and not just someone trying to get “dunk points” on him.
It’d probably help if you told them about blahaj
Already have, lol. So the instance is trans-inclusive, but how can I convince them that the software is trans-inclusive and isn’t systemically biased against them? They’re not technical people; I’ve tried explaining the difference between federated and corporate social media.
Show your siblings https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/
Because why would the bourgeoisie want the masses fighting each other? Though he’s wrong anyway because the elite didn’t promote anything that doesn’t benefit them financially. While that includes turning the poor against each other, it also includes selling anything in any form to anyone regardless of want moral, ethical, or practical factors. If they can get you to pay them money for something with a rainbow on it, congrats, they’re pro-lgbtq. Because they’ve got another subsidiary that will sell the hate-fueled psychopaths that want to kill you their Bibles and.
Classical Marxist/Lenninism is specifically not intersectional. They’ll use race as a lever against capitalism but deny race as a social problem they must specifically intervene on. But it’s also stupid to adopt. There’s a reason TERFs are often fascist adjacent.
There are plenty of early leninists who were deeply intersectional. Alexandra Kollontai jumps to mind immediately.
But yeah, there’s definitely a vulgar strain here that nutomic is clinging to.
I think it’s like saying that Marxism isn’t… let’s say, Nietzschean. Those are two ways of looking into problems. In some points, they’ll coincide; in others, they won’t. I’m bad at analogies. Anyway, if you’re a Nietzschean (in this case, if you believe intersectionality is the proper way of looking at social phenomena), of course Marxism (probably in all its different branches) will look incomplete and like they’re building from the wrong premises to you. But if you were Marxist, you’d think the same of Nietzschean philosophy (or intersectionality).
I’m sure both have excellent reasons to believe in a framework or another, but we should not forget they are just that, not truth™. I say this not to fall into an absolute relativism but to prevent any side from falling into a conviction of moral superiority. We cannot be so sure about it.
And here I thought both transactivism and transphobia were clearly promoted by Russia to create discord in the west. It would kind of track with what Yuri Bezmenov was saying back in 1984: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yErKTVdETpw
But if you disagree with the person who created the software you’re using, why on earth does that bother you? It doesn’t become unholy because of their touch. You can think of it like the old saying goes: “They Capitalists will sell us the rope that we will use to hang them”.
![[Transphobia Warning] Nutomic’s Stance on Transgender People](https://lemmy.ca/pictrs/image/e65d59a4-e335-42e1-88e3-f30708116c5b.jpeg){kind=link}