People in my circles are quite suspicious of me now due to my inability to be quiet.

It feels dumb to talk about and it’s hard to even really find the words to what I want to say but I find it difficuilt to keep quiet sometimes, especially when someone says something very dumb about something I’ve been putting a lot of time into studying. There have been a couple times now where someone has said something dreadful about Palestinians and I’ve had to reprimand them. It’s hard to keep quiet about things like this while also not going too far. Sometimes simply saying that you don’t hate Chinese people for no reason at all is enough to make some people around you suspicious. One time someone raised their eyebrow just because I said I’d love to visit China some day. When someone for example makes a comment about Cuba that’s clearly just wrong, I try to nudge them in the right direction subtly but it turns out not subtle enough. I need to learn to be quiet sometimes but even if I do stay quiet that also looks suspicious! I guess the only thing left to do is pretend to be a lib but it feels … wrong. It feels like I’m encouraging those beliefs to the people around me. I think I just need to chill and let things be but it’s hard sometimes. I try to surround myself with cool people but that’s not always possible. It feels dumb to talk about but it’s been bothering me a lot lately. Have any of you ever felt like this?

  • ArmWorldbuilding@lemmygrad.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    edit-2
    6 days ago

    What if I know they’re wrong about something but I’m too mentally burnt out and disabled to be articulate and knowledgeable enough to refute what they’re saying? Like they will run circles around being wrong and then pat themselves on the back and call me a dumb Russian troll or something.

    The best I can think of is linking to an article or a video that refuses their bs. But that’s not an option in meat space. This is why I stay at home and never talk to strangers.

    • Onewhoexists@lemmygrad.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      5 days ago

      Yeah, I can relate to this. At one point I had about five liberals ganging up on me, and at another point, two history teachers. It was pain, but I held my own, somehow.

    • poo_22@lemmygrad.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      6 days ago

      Like they will run circles around being wrong and then pat themselves on the back and call me a dumb Russian troll or something.

      Liberals do this, they won’t listen to you anyways. They will laugh at you because what you’re saying is against the ideas of the ruling class, which to them is the obvious dominant way of thinking in society.

      You have to very calmly and succinctly utterly destroy every part of their argument, call them out on shifting goalposts and then, and this is the key part, they will try to lie to support their argument. If you catch them lying without getting mad you will have the upper hand.

      One shortcut can be catching them being racist. Libs are racist, more so than right wingers in the sense that right wingers want to be racist to hurt people’s feelings liberals don’t even acknowledge that some people are human, and if you catch them in this act of dehumanization (eg: I don’t hate the people, i just hate the government. Okay but why don’t their people hate the government. Because they’re all brainwashed. So you think their whole population is easily brainwashed and they need you to tell them the truth?) Sometimes that gets them to shut the fuck up and reflect a little bit.

      I don’t think this battle is worth it though, most of the time. Like you said it’s exhausting. These people don’t have any real friends anyway, have you noticed?

      You could also just attack them personally for being a fascist.

      • Onewhoexists@lemmygrad.ml
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        edit-2
        5 days ago

        Somewhat related; my friends condemned Stalin for, “being a pedophile” for marrying Nadezhda Alliluyeva when she was 15, (she was 17). When I pointed this out, she shifted the goalposts and said that it was still, “weird”.

        One of them also said that nothing would change her mind about the DPRK after I showed her Loyal Citizens of Pyongyang in Seoul and MillennialChaos dunking on a liberal on Radio Free America. (Not exaggerating this is actually what she said)

        She called me brainwashed.

    • amemorablename@lemmygrad.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      6 days ago

      This is where asking questions can get you far and occasionally interjecting your own commentary if it seems like they’re getting uncomfortable with too much focus being on them. Basically you can approach it similar to a small child asking “why” but with more adult nuance in your phrasing. Often people are happy to ramble on about where they’re coming from. You can learn a lot about how a person thinks that way. Even if you don’t change their mind, you might come away with a better understanding of how to approach it in the future.

      I know I’ve had the experience, regardless of subject matter, where I assume what someone’s point of view is based on little information and then try to argue with that, and it turns out I was off the mark in the first place.

  • Commiejones@lemmygrad.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    6 days ago

    Don’t cool it unless you want to be a liberal of the 7th type.

    Maybe try some of the methods other people suggest to make it seem less antagonistic but don’t let people continue to spread lies and imperialist propaganda. Make people aware that the views they are sharing support war, white supremacy, and exploitation. Make them question why they are repeating the narratives that send thousands of young men to die to make a few old white men richer.

    If that makes them uncomfortable? Good. Comfort breeds complacency. Agitation is the name of the game in the imperial core. Make people see that their best interests are not the interests of the capitalists. Make people see that their comfort is a bed of corpses built by slaves.

    If this makes you unpopular with some people? Good. Those people are the enemy. Even if they were your “friends” they would never help you if you were down on your luck because they believe “greed is human nature” and “capitalism is Darwinism.”

    The people who don’t shy from the truth have the potential to be comrades who will will walk through fire with you. You need to find those people if you want to survive.

  • gray@lemmygrad.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    6 days ago

    Don’t pretend to be a liberal. I think it is our duty to at least give push-back to these liberal statements, however that might look. This might be redirecting their anger, for example, I spoke to my mother, and she mentioned feeling frustrated at undocumented immigrants because she felt they lowered the quality of life for U.S. citizens, and I told her to turn her anger to the bourgeoisie, who actually ruin things for everyone. Just meet them where they’re at.

    • materialanalysis1938@lemmygrad.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      6 days ago

      And I don’t obfuscate that I’m a communist. I’ll tell people that. Maybe not right away, but definitely at some point in the conversation. The reason I do that is because I want to show people that my values aren’t just “big government, no food”

  • IHave69XiBucks@lemmygrad.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    edit-2
    6 days ago

    I don’t bother. If someones gonna dislike you then let them. Unless they have some sort of ability to harm you like if they’re your boss or anything just tell them what you think, and If they don’t like it too bad for them. In fact when you try to be subtle about it it comes off as you being unsure. Confidence is better. Just straight up tell them theyre wrong. People are more likely to question what they think when presented with someone confidently telling them they’re wrong than when someone tells them “oh well maybe if you just look at it this way…”

    Just say, “That’s wrong, and you don’t know what you’re talking about.” Just be sure that you know what YOU are talking about and can explain why they’re wrong if they challenge you.

    You’d be surprised how many people say stuff like that just because it’s all they’ve ever heard. They’ve never heard someone say the opposite before. Even if when you tell this they aren’t open to it that confident denial can stick with them, and make them start to question things more down the line.

    That’s how propaganda works. It saturates the information people have access to, and they never hear any other perspective. Your goal should not be to act as a gentle guide into a different perspective, but to be the rock that derails the train. You can poke 1 hole in their worldview and over months, and years it will start to unravel around them. The key is that you can’t be easy to dismiss. You need to look, and act like you know more than most people. Because you do. And not be shy about it. Don’t be a dick either, but don’t be afraid to stand up for what’s true.

    There will be people who hate you for being this way, but there will also be people who respect it.

    Edit: I thought of a real example in my life. My mom had this thing she liked to bring up where she would be transphobic. Like a personal anecdote about a trans person she knew where they were the butt of the joke. I told her plenty of times when i heard her say it that it was transphobic, and she shouldn’t be saying shit like that. She got very defensive, and angry the first few times. Then eventually came around, and was like, “Maybe you’re right…” and seemed to reflect on it. She still says stuff she shouldn’t at times but she is getting a lot better at correcting herself on it. I’ve even had her tell me a story before about someone and stop to say “Well i guess it’s none of my business anyway.” as if she realized she shouldn’t be talking about other people. Change won’t happen in a single conversation, but you can give them the push in the right direction. It’s up to them to go with it, or push back even harder.

  • amemorablename@lemmygrad.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    7 days ago

    I try to pick my battles, though I’m not sure how helpful that is as advice because it comes down to a personal judgment call. But basically, I know I’m not going to be changing everybody in a conversation and I know that sometimes it’s more important to maintain a relationship with someone than get righteous on them. That said, there are times I’ve said something with passion just because it was hard not to. Anyone denying the genocide going on in Palestine or trying to make it both sides is one where it’s hard for me to not say anything.

    I would also like to mention, you gave an example with China. If you say you’d like to visit China some day and people say something weird, turn it around on them. Like they say: “Why would you want to visit China?” You can be like: “I’m confused, do you have a problem with wanting to visit other countries?” You don’t need to get into depth on China politics for a thing like that, you can just make it about simple tourism and travel, and if they’re going to be weird about it, make them be the one to go there. Maybe they just genuinely haven’t thought about it as a travel destination or maybe they’re racist. They might end up saying something racist if prodded on it and then you can push back on the racism, which even liberals may side with you on. The goal here is not to “trick” them exactly, just to keep things in perspective because some of that stuff is downright ridiculous and you don’t even need to be a communist to see how absurd it is. A lot of liberals are people who would like to think they are decent, empathic people who care about others, so keep that in mind when considering rhetoric of things. Some of the stuff with communism and their hatred of it is basically just they believe lies they’ve been told that it’s always horribly evil in practice. You probably won’t convince them otherwise easily, but you can still work with the fact that their beliefs are coming from a place of wanting to be empathic. Compared to like, some people just have a very warped sense of right and wrong, believe in survival of the fittest type stuff, and you’re probably more so wasting energy trying to move them via conversation alone.

  • materialanalysis1938@lemmygrad.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    7 days ago

    I feel like it all the time honestly. One thing that has helped me at least have productive conversations is to ask people “why do you feel that way about Palestinians” or “why wouldn’t you travel to China?”

    Then that opens the door a little bit more. Unfortunately, people get very offended when you approach it from “you’re wrong and here’s why” instead of “why do you feel that way?”

    • bunbun@lemmygrad.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      7 days ago

      Big time agree. People often build their entire positions on top of a few very shoddy lies that simply have been repeated enough and never challenged.

      Recognize the narrative they’re following (“israel is defending itself/China is doing a genocide in Xinjiang”). Empathize with their underlying concern (“I care about the safety of civilians/rights of minorities”). From there you can easily deconstruct the underlying arguments and show that they do not match the reality (israelis are not safe/Xinjiang is).

    • mjackxson@lemmygrad.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      7 days ago

      I second this. Also, it may help to journal your thoughts and emotions freely. Or even better to vent out to a comrade!