Because of his original purpose, it makes sense that the Doctor wouldnā€™t have held a Starfleet rank during Voyager.

However, in Prodigy, he still doesnā€™t have pips. This leads to my questions:

  • Can a self-aware hologram hold rank or a non-com position in Starfleet?
  • If so, how would the Doctor attaib it?

According to the STO wiki, he doesnā€™t wear them by choice but does have a rank. That might be a reasonable explanation; I canā€™t imagine Janeway not at least trying to field commission him.

  • _stranger_@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Data was artificial and autonomous. The Dr originally wasnā€™t autonomous, it could be argued heā€™s just part of the ship, but the holo emitter changed that. Iā€™m amazed the Daystrom institute let him keep it, but since itā€™s apparently his, and that makes him autonomous, I would argue heā€™s just like Data (minus the permanent corporeality of course). I suppose thereā€™s a question about ownership given his origins as a Starfleet asset, but since he can be replaced with a copy of the original program, thereā€™s no real material loss in letting him leave the ship.

    • T156@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      The Dr originally wasnā€™t autonomous, it could be argued heā€™s just part of the ship, but the holo emitter changed that.

      Thereā€™s an argument to be made that that changed the moment he started to be established as a sapient individual of his own.

      Iā€™m amazed the Daystrom institute let him keep it, but since itā€™s apparently his, and that makes him autonomous, I would argue heā€™s just like Data (minus the permanent corporeality of course).

      It bring future Federation technology bequeathed to him may help there too. The Federation likely doesnā€™t want to risk issues with the Time Police by confiscating and studying the emitter, so just let him keep it to do with as he wants.

      Thereā€™s also an ethical argument that removing it would severely restrict his ability to move, given that Starfleet would have trouble furnishing him with a sufficient replacement.

      I suppose thereā€™s a question about ownership given his origins as a Starfleet asset, but since he can be replaced with a copy of the original program, thereā€™s no real material loss in letting him leave the ship.

      We also know from Prodigy that the Voyager was intended to be shelved for study, so it no longer being active might also be a good reason to allow the Doctor to roam about, instead of effectively trapping him on the inactive ship while Starfleet scientists pulled it apart and studied every crook and nanny.

  • HeathenPope@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    He would most certainly be assigned a rank if for no other reason than to ensure he (as an asset) is treated by crewmen with care and respect. It is the same approach in logic that militaries and police use with K-9 units. Dogs always outrank the handlers as a further mechanism to ensure proper treatment of the self-aware asset.

    • Wolf314159@startrek.website
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      2 months ago

      That didnā€™t stop that one guy from trying to dismantle Data. They had to have a whole court episode to re-affirm Dataā€™s autonomy and personhood.

  • Rookeh@startrek.website
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    2 months ago

    Even without an official rank, on Voyager he was still considered a Department Head and (more importantly) the CMO, which gave significant authority (even exceeding the Captain on certain medical matters), regardless of whether or not he was ever given any pips. The same thing would likely apply on subsequent postings.

    If he ever had to be assigned a rank for clerical/administrative purposes, it would probably be the default required rank for a Starfleet CMO candidate for the class of ship he was serving on.

    • williams_482@startrek.websiteM
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      2 months ago

      Voyagerā€™s original CMO was a Lieutenant Commander, which is presumably pretty typical for a ship of Voyagerā€™s size. Bashir was commissioned as a Lieutenant Junior Grade to be the CMO on a backwater space station, so thatā€™s presumably the bare minimum.

      I would expect the Doctorā€™s first official rank (whatever that might be) to stick with him, plus promotion as appropriate. Adjusting it up and down based on posting would be a bizare thing to do for any other crewperson, and Iā€™m sure The Doctor would object vigorously to such a thing.

    • data1701d (He/Him)@startrek.websiteOP
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      2 months ago

      Iā€™ve never watched Stargate, except for the first film and a few random SG-1 episodes. I knew Sirtis was in it at some point, but not Picardo.

        • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
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          2 months ago

          I like to play a game where if you see one Star Trek actor you often see others and you have to spot them.

          Quite a few have been in CSI over the years.

          • data1701d (He/Him)@startrek.websiteOP
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            2 months ago

            Gargoyles (where Frakes and Sirtis are the main villains) even cracks a joke, ā€œYou and what Starfleet!ā€

            I heard Takei and Frakes were on Adventure Time. After a Google, in addition, it seems so was Sirtis, Burton, and a bunch of Lower Decks actors.

            Kate Mulgrew is great in Infinity Train.

            I think one of my favorites, though, is the completely unrelated freebee for your cellphone randomly dropped for Kevin by Takei at the end of an episode of Community.

          • themoken@startrek.website
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            2 months ago

            I love that game. Recently been putting on the old 90s Superman show and itā€™s got a good amount of Trek crossover, including Jonathan Frakes as a bizarre villain. Also a cameo from the late great James Earl Jonesā€¦

            Cheers is another that comes to mind. Young Brent Spiner and Kate Mulgrew years before they were famous and, later, Kirstie Alley is a main character. And of course Norm == Morn.

  • Dasus@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    He doesnā€™t need a rank to have authority over others. A duty station can give one authority, and he is the acting medical officer of the ship, so technically he can even order Janeway about.

    Technically

  • T156@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    In Voyager, heā€™s shown to have pips. In fact, switching him over to Command mode shows a deliberate animation of pips showing up on hid collar.

    However, it is possible that this is something that only applied on the Voyager thanks to their excsptional circumstances, and regular Starfleet doesnā€™t recognise it as a ā€œproperā€ rank.

    • Can a self-aware hologram hold rank or a non-com position in Starfleet?

    Technically, yes, in practice, it would be a bit more complicated. A lot of the Federation still has issues around recognising the personhood of inorganics, and a good many of them would hold the early Voyager attitude of seeing him as a regular hologram/tool that the Voyager got too attached to, like the Enterprise did with their Data.

    • If so, how would the Doctor attaib it?

    The regular way, in theory. The ranking system technically doesnā€™t change depending on what species you are, other than some minor twiddling to account for your speciesā€™ characteristics.

    It would be silly to expect a species who canā€™t speak to give verbal commands, for example, or give them a crew who is not receptive to telepathy.

    In practice, thereā€™s a lot more complications, like how the crew of the Sutherland nearly mutinied against Data because they believed him to be a dispassionate computer weighing lives at data points.

    • Rookeh@startrek.website
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      1 month ago

      In Voyager, heā€™s shown to have pips. In fact, switching him over to Command mode shows a deliberate animation of pips showing up on hid collar.

      The EMH is never shown with pips on Voyager. The ā€œECHā€ was shown with pips appearing on its first appearance, however:

      spoiler

      The entire ECH subroutine was created as the result of The Doctorā€™s daydreaming, so the visualisation of a rank appearing out of thin air makes sense in that context.

      The only other time the ECH mode was used in a genuine emergency (Season 7, Episodes 16/17), he did not have pips.