I didn’t want to direct this question to Americans specifically because, at this point, other countries have shown support to Israel in one or the other way. If my country was financing this, I would be taking the streets. Shit, I’m right now in the hospital but all I can think about is protesting anyway just to feel I did something to stop this madness.
Are you doing something about this? Are you feeling unsettled? How do you feel about all this mess?
EDIT: So, buying Chinese stuff takes the USS Gerald Ford to Gaza’s coast. Also, TIL that that chocolate my cousin gave me when she was 20 and I was 5, (delicious stuff!) made me a slavist-ish. The fact remains, this genocide is being paid and supported by taxpayers money; of course, I was hoping that most of us didn’t pay taxes wishing for this. Thank you all for your responses, some of them were hard to swallow.
I don’t mean to derail the conversation, but it pains me to say that Europeans have been financing the ethnic cleansing of Artsakh by buying Azerbaijani oil with almost no repercussion.
In the US, speaking the truth about the Israel-Palestine ::cough::Palestinian genocide::cough:: war will get you cancelled by AIPAC astroturfers and useful idiots who just cancel who they’re told to cancel. That’s how they (the AIPAC, the military industrial complex, and AIPAC-run film industry…if you don’t believe me, why was Harvey Weinstein so friendly with ex-Mossad agents that he was able to use them against his opponents?) manufacture consent among normal people these days.
Additionally, 35 US states have anti-bds laws on the books punishing US citizens that choose not to buy products from Israel. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws In many of those US states you can be fired from government jobs for refusing to buy Israeli products in your own personal life.
I feel that taking one side over the other without allowing for any nuance in that complicated clusterfuck over there is disingenuous. I feel very sorry for all civilians caught between the many murderous assholes in that region, but I can’t fully support one group while completely condemning the other. Acting like it’s a black and white issue is so very wrong and not helpful.
Which side is committing genocide? That’s the side to oppose in any fight.
My country has been voting to condemn Israel’s treatment of Palestine in the UN until 2022 but they will probably vote the same now. As far as I know my country doesn’t support Israel monetarily either so I’m pretty happy.
and supported by taxpayers money;
nah our national taxes don’t pay for anything, a sovereign government prints fiat money before anyone pays any tax and part of what gives that money any real value is that it’s accepted as payment for debts owed to that sovereign.
They print money for the government budget but that massively inflates the money supply so to counterbalance that inflation, they destroy all the money that was paid in taxes by their citizens
Taxpayer money funding government budget is fairly accurate
Taxpayer money funding government budget is fairly accurate
you can print money up to the natural resource+ labor output of a nation-state and nobody is printing that much money.
where did the 20,000 per person per year for all those years the US spent on its wars in iraq and afghanistan come from? it wasn’t tax revenue.
It wasn’t all tax revenue but taxes were definitely necessary for the US economy to not collapse while funding the war machine
Not good. All I can do is vote. Until they take that away.
Do you feel represented by one of the political parties you may have in your country? Would they act in a general agreement with your own convictions?
I do not. Not one iota. That being said, I’m an American who’s been around the world twice and speaks multiple languages. I consider myself reasonably left, but in this country I am extreme left. Our politicians are bought and paid for by lobbyists. The few who tend to be honest are either marginalized or silenced.
My vote counts for nothing. I will still vote in earnest.
This is why I started to support rank choice voting like they have in many countries in Europe. It’s not perfect but a nice step forward from what we have.
I’m assuming you meant ranked choice, but the mental image of your typo is quite entertaining.
I mean, if you’ve purchased chocolate in the last century, you’re supporting slavery by your logic. Same for many other commodities, but most people know about diamonds. You could be protesting your entire life, justifiably, about many things. Most people in the world cannot consume without inadvertently causing harm and suffering somewhere in the world. It’s nice that you’re now thinking about it though.
I believe you are taking my question out of context. I didn’t start thinking about this just now. Ultimately, not every company owns representatives in the state. Yes, I believe we should be careful about what we consume and who’s behind those products, but it needs to be in the power of the states to control the best practices to produce goods; it is not reasonable for an individual, for one citizen, to ask for this. It is different with our governments, we can and should demand for them to represent us with dignity. As individuals, we can demand accountability for their decisions taken in our names. Companies don’t represent us, governments do.
The only thing I’m dissatisfied with is their free hand with bombing civilians along with military targets. I can understand that Israel is angry, and rightfully so, but they fancy themselves a western country, being better than terrorist Hamas. They can’t let their anger take control. Bombing civilians undermines their legitimatecy, I think they should try and be as surgical as possible, like they did in previous rounds of fighting. Other than that, I fully support their desire to root out Hamas. Though conquering Gaza only has any merit to it if they decide to stay and govern it themselves, otherwise Hamas would just rise up again.
I think they should try and be as surgical as possible
How about this, remove the blockade on Gaza, give everyone there citizenship and become a secular state.
like they did in previous rounds of fighting
When has Israel not leveled civilian buildings? Have you not seen charts comparing Israeli casualties to Palestinian ones?
I can understand that Israel is angry, and rightfully so
I think Palestinians should be the ones who should be angry for the way Israel has treated them since inception.
I have so much to say over this comment. I’ll try to be concise.
remove the blockade on Gaza, give everyone there citizenship and become a secular state
- Israel doesn’t trust Hamas. The blockade, which, mind you, is also enforced by Egypt, is meant to limit the group’s ability to procure weapons. Water, food, fuel and other necessities are usually provided by both Israel and international help.
- Neither Gazans want Israeli citizenship, nor Israel wants Gazans to be its citizens.
- Religious and secular political forces quarrel in Israel daily. It can’t just “become” secular. A big portion of Israelis don’t want it to.
When has Israel not leveled civilian buildings? Have you not seen charts comparing Israeli casualties to Palestinian ones?
- If not for Iron Dome, Israeli casualties would be way higher.
- Any civilian casualties are to be condemned. Yet, you must remember that Hamas likes to base itself under hospitals, schools, mosques. Not only that, but Gaza is also very densly populated. They’re some 2.5 million people over 365km squared. It’s very difficult to carry out any strikes without damaging hundreds of people. Yet, in the 2021 conflict, only 260 Gazans died as a result of strikes, despite hundreds if not thousands of shellings. Israel claims that at least 200 of those were militians. If that is not surgical, I don’t know what is.
I think Palestinians should be the ones who should be angry for the way Israel has treated them since inception.
Read a little about the history of the conflict, as well as about peace talks and different offers that Israel made.
Israel doesn’t trust Hamas.
Then maybe Israel shouldn’t have funded them.
The blockade, which, mind you, is also enforced by Egypt
The US-backed dictatorship in Egypt is doing the US’s bidding? You don’t say…
Any civilian casualties are to be condemned.
Israel hasn’t made much distinction between combatants and non-combatants since 1949 - can’t blame Hamas for playing by Israel’s rules.
Yet, you must remember that Hamas likes to base itself under hospitals, schools, mosques.
Right, because there are vast tracts of unused real estate in one of the most densely populated areas on the planet, eh?
If that is not surgical, I don’t know what is.
There is no such thng as a “surgical” artillery shell, Clyde. And as for the claim itself… the IDF is no more trustworthy than the Apartheid security forces were.
Fuck Israel.
Are you satisfied about they having a nuclear arsenal after this? It’s not a rhetorical question, I’m actually interested in your thoughts about this.
I don’t know, what does it matter? They don’t even acknowledge it, nevermind about using it. The only instance in which they might use their nukes is the Samson Option, which looks like something any country would do.
It matters because it changes all logics in a war. In this case, I think it matters because you described them as angry, bombing civilians along with military targets. If they don’t differentiate one of the other, the only thing stopping them from nuking the Gaza stripe is probably the inconvenience of being too close.
My country burns money, resources and human lives to enforce its hegemony on the other side of the planet while I only have health insurance through my crappy job and the infrastructure is crumbling everywhere. How do you think I feel?
Not too hot, I guess. Thanks for taking the time.
Many are just trying to make the best out of what we have and it often feels like we have such little impact on these things happening across the country, let along in other parts of the world. The world population approaches 8 billion. Our impact is often meaningful in some way, but incredibly limited overall.
How can someone truly help with something across the world, like Ukraine/Russia and now Israel/Gaza, when conflict is constant and many also have to simply survive, in the face of entities that are capable of spending trillions of dollars.
It’s never just been the US - Israel doesn’t just have a whole bunch of enablers… said enablers also back the very idea of a modern-day Israel.
France, the UK, Germany, Australia, Apartheid-era South Africa all played their part in helping with all this - I guess the fact that it’s all countries with histories that are deeply entwined with white supremacism, antisemitism and colonialism is purely coincidence, eh?
Did I read this correctly? You just tried to say that Israel’s supporters are antisemitic? How’d you connect those two dots?
You just tried to say that Israel’s supporters are antisemitic?
No. I never tried to say it.
I just plain said it - the countries that enable Israel is as antisemitic and white supremacist as they have always been. They’ve been hiding it since WW2 - but, as the resurgence of mask-off far-right ideology in the US and Europe proves, it’s still the same old west.
The west’s support for Israel has always been antisemitic - dumping European Jewish people in Palestine was literally one the Nazi’s potential solutions to the “Jewish Question”. It’s no secret - just mundane history that westerners doesn’t like talking about.
Christian Zionism predates Jewish Zionism - the whole reason these white supremacist and antisemitic societies fantasized about a modern-day “Israel” was simply because they did not believe Jewish people belonged in their precious “white” societies.
You don’t have to think about it for very long to see it for yourself - who were the people that made it so difficult for Jewish people to “belong” in western societies? If the US was so friendly and welcoming to Jewish people as the US wants to pretend it is (prominent Jewish people like Steven Spielberg and Noam Chomsky will happily tell you about US-style antisemitism), why would Jewish people need a “homeland” in the middle-east?
I desire the end of America and indeed all capitalist states, ideally before they slide even further into fascism in the near future. Death to the Israeli state, and death to any states that support it.
Also please remember that Europe purchased nearly the entirety of products produced by slaves in the Americas.
If there were no European market there would have been little incentive for American slavery.
I guess the slave free northern states also purchased their fair share, but nothing compared to Europe.
It’s almost like capitalism fosters slavery, weird 🤔
Actually no. Capitalism is based on free markets and slaves aren’t involved in the market freely. If the market includes people in chains who haven’t consented to be involved, it’s not a free market.
Tell me you know nothing about economics without saying, “I know nothing of economics”.
Oh yeah, and you know the justification for indigenous peoples being granted their land back because their ancestors used to live there, and they were removed?
That’s the exact same situation for Israel. The Jews used to live in Israel until they were kicked out.
Let that complicate your morality.
I’m not sure I think Israel is engaged in genocide - although I’m deeply unhappy with some of their military approaches.
Hamas, on the other hand, is unashamedly aiming at genocide. Their started aim is the death of all Jews and they are frequently heard chanting “from the river to the sea”.
Since you probably buy stuff made in China like everyone else, you tell us.
China meets the manufacturing needs for most of the world, it’s economically not realistic to boycott them
That said, we still should boycott them, at least in principle.
If you read the thread, or at least my responses, you would probably made a more conscious effort to answer my question.
What does China have to do with anything?
