Yes, the mouse is useful in many situations (esp 3d modeling), so I don’t think anyone is arguing that it shouldn’t exist.
The problem, however, is that we’ve standardized on it for everything, to the point where software often ignores a better KB-driven workflow because the mouse one is good enough. “When all you have is a hammer…”
We’ve prioritized “intuitive” over “efficient.” There’s nothing wrong with learning to properly use a tool, and it’s sad that we don’t expect users to put in that modicum of effort. In the 80s and 90s, that’s just how things were, you either learn the tools (often with a handbook) or you don’t use them. The net result was a populace that didn’t need support as much, because they were used to reading the docs. If a component died, the docs would tell you how to diagnose and fix it. These days, those docs just don’t exist, so if the solution isn’t intuitive, you replace it (both hardware and software).
That’s where this frustration comes from. Making things intuitive also means reducing the average person’s understanding of their tools, and the mouse is a symptom of that shift.
I would argue, overall, it’s more efficient to aim for the former than the latter, especially if we are talking about the wide range of people who need to use a computer.
But I’m curious as to the “actions per minute” type of efficiency that people are talking about here. I’m an engineer, who has moved into computer programming. I would say the bottleneck for me is never that I have to move my hand to my mouse, but it’s always about thinking and planning. I feel like this “it’s so much more efficient” is viewing us as almost machines that are just trying to output actions, rather than think through and solve problems.
The net result was a populace that didn’t need support as much, because they were used to reading the docs. If a component died, the docs would tell you how to diagnose and fix it.
I think this is more of a problem that it went from an extremely niche thing, to something that almost everyone is required to use, rather than a move away from keyboard only. Or, maybe, the rise of the mouse opened the computer to everyone being able to use it, which is why it has become so ubiquitous.
To me it’s more about ergonomics. Most of my time is spent reading code and sending messages. I use ViM or at least ViM bindings for reading code because it’s so much nicer for navigating code than clicking and scrolling:
go to definition? - gd
find in file? - /query
match braces/quotes? - %
I’m not saying everyone should learn ViM, I’m just using it as an example. I’m much less concerned about maximizing my text entry speed and more interested in maximizing ergonomics of the tools I use the most every day. For me that’s my text editor and terminal, followed closely by my browser.
I have no problem with a good mouse UI (I love mouse mode in ViM), my problem is when there isn’t an alternative power user UX (shortcuts and whatnot).
This extends to a ton of things. Let’s say you want to search for a file, but the GUI indexed search isn’t working properly (maybe it didn’t index your file? Or maybe you need more than string contains?). If you’re comfortable on the CLI and understand regex, you’re set. Or maybe you need to do some bulk change across files, the CLI is going to be really efficient. It’s less about total productivity but not having to do stupid repetitive tasks because that’s my only option. I’d much rather write a script than do the repetitive thing even if the total time spent is equivalent.
People just aren’t learning the power user stuff these days and look at me like I’m a wizard because I can use tools written 40 years ago…
Yes, the mouse is useful in many situations (esp 3d modeling), so I don’t think anyone is arguing that it shouldn’t exist.
The problem, however, is that we’ve standardized on it for everything, to the point where software often ignores a better KB-driven workflow because the mouse one is good enough. “When all you have is a hammer…”
We’ve prioritized “intuitive” over “efficient.” There’s nothing wrong with learning to properly use a tool, and it’s sad that we don’t expect users to put in that modicum of effort. In the 80s and 90s, that’s just how things were, you either learn the tools (often with a handbook) or you don’t use them. The net result was a populace that didn’t need support as much, because they were used to reading the docs. If a component died, the docs would tell you how to diagnose and fix it. These days, those docs just don’t exist, so if the solution isn’t intuitive, you replace it (both hardware and software).
That’s where this frustration comes from. Making things intuitive also means reducing the average person’s understanding of their tools, and the mouse is a symptom of that shift.
I would argue, overall, it’s more efficient to aim for the former than the latter, especially if we are talking about the wide range of people who need to use a computer.
But I’m curious as to the “actions per minute” type of efficiency that people are talking about here. I’m an engineer, who has moved into computer programming. I would say the bottleneck for me is never that I have to move my hand to my mouse, but it’s always about thinking and planning. I feel like this “it’s so much more efficient” is viewing us as almost machines that are just trying to output actions, rather than think through and solve problems.
I think this is more of a problem that it went from an extremely niche thing, to something that almost everyone is required to use, rather than a move away from keyboard only. Or, maybe, the rise of the mouse opened the computer to everyone being able to use it, which is why it has become so ubiquitous.
To me it’s more about ergonomics. Most of my time is spent reading code and sending messages. I use ViM or at least ViM bindings for reading code because it’s so much nicer for navigating code than clicking and scrolling:
queryI’m not saying everyone should learn ViM, I’m just using it as an example. I’m much less concerned about maximizing my text entry speed and more interested in maximizing ergonomics of the tools I use the most every day. For me that’s my text editor and terminal, followed closely by my browser.
I have no problem with a good mouse UI (I love mouse mode in ViM), my problem is when there isn’t an alternative power user UX (shortcuts and whatnot).
This extends to a ton of things. Let’s say you want to search for a file, but the GUI indexed search isn’t working properly (maybe it didn’t index your file? Or maybe you need more than string contains?). If you’re comfortable on the CLI and understand regex, you’re set. Or maybe you need to do some bulk change across files, the CLI is going to be really efficient. It’s less about total productivity but not having to do stupid repetitive tasks because that’s my only option. I’d much rather write a script than do the repetitive thing even if the total time spent is equivalent.
People just aren’t learning the power user stuff these days and look at me like I’m a wizard because I can use tools written 40 years ago…
I feel that.