If going by Christian theology, literally every atrocity in human history was caused by Satan. Even if fictional, there’s literally no redeeming qualities of Satan
Interesting, so who created the fruit of knowledge? Who then decided that we would die and feel pain? Who flooded the earth? Who took up a bet to torture job? And that’s barely scraping the old testament
Meanwhile, who offered food and water to a starving madman in the desert?
We decided we’d die and feel pain. We deserved the flood, and it was literally satan who tortured Job. satan didn’t even offer Jesus food, he just told Him to turn the rocks into food with His own power.
You missed a very, very important keyword there: “deserved.”
Theologians miss a key point of rational debate where they don’t provide proper definitions and make big assumptions that aren’t great.
Who defines what the “correct” effect of an action is? Who defines what consequence is deserved by a choice? If God is the almighty being, he decides what is right and wrong. In Abrahamic tradition, God defines all of these arbitrary rules and expects humanity to obey them without question. Shit, God ordered Abraham himself to murder despite that supposedly being against the rules.
God is like a kid that holds a magnifying glass focused on an arbitrary point near the anthill. He set up the conditions for us to hurt ourselves according to his arbitrary rules. Why didn’t he tell Satan to fuck off with the fruit? Why did he allow Satan to exist in the first place? If God created everything, then he is responsible for everything by our human logic. So God can fuck right off
I agree, that’s why I said that God, the one who sent locusts and killed innocent children, submerged the world for 40 days killing everyone indiscriminately, and razed Sodom and Gomorrah to the ground, is the evil deity.
Sodom and Gomorrah deserved it, it was made clear in that by Lot existing. Everyone in the flood also deserved it, apart from Noah which is why Noah was saved. The “children” weren’t innocent or else God wouldn’t have killed them.
Would the foetuses of any of the damned by considered guilty? I presume there must have been a few pregnant women murdered by that malevolent deity in that fairy story of your ilk (if you’re not on the wind-up, might I add).
Well, there’s the Flood and the Ten Plagues (particularly that tenth one) for starters.
Then there’s the various war crimes committed by the Israelites at Jehovah’s explicit instructions (e.g. the genocide of the Midianites in Numbers 31).
I have a question, suppose that a different god or being did all the things said in the bible attributed to god. Are these deaths and atrocities still moral? Are they good because god did them? Or are they inherent good things to do? What if you were the one who started the flood or unleashed the plagues or anything else like that? Is the act still moral? Is the death of thousands if not moral at that point?
There is no reason to believe that Noah’s family were the only innocents in the Flood story. I do not know how one can pin the supposed hedonism of the world on all those young children who would have drowned.
There is also no way to excuse killing the children of thousands of people because of the actions of one man. Blaming that one man for “forcing” supposedly omnipotent being to act in that way is also unjustifiable.
And there is no way to shift blame for genocide by simply saying, “the underlings took it too far.” This excuse rings especially hollow when Jehovah asks for a cut of the spoils afterward (Numbers 31:25-31).
In the Sodom and Gomorrah story and the Jericho story, innocent people were saved. How would the great flood be any different? It’s illustrative of the extent of the hedonism.
Good deities don’t intentionally cause pain and suffering and drag everyone down with them. There’s nothing good about Satan.
Never heard of Satan causing any of those things. That’s god’s territory.
If going by Christian theology, literally every atrocity in human history was caused by Satan. Even if fictional, there’s literally no redeeming qualities of Satan
Interesting, so who created the fruit of knowledge? Who then decided that we would die and feel pain? Who flooded the earth? Who took up a bet to torture job? And that’s barely scraping the old testament
Meanwhile, who offered food and water to a starving madman in the desert?
We decided we’d die and feel pain. We deserved the flood, and it was literally satan who tortured Job. satan didn’t even offer Jesus food, he just told Him to turn the rocks into food with His own power.
You missed a very, very important keyword there: “deserved.”
Theologians miss a key point of rational debate where they don’t provide proper definitions and make big assumptions that aren’t great.
Who defines what the “correct” effect of an action is? Who defines what consequence is deserved by a choice? If God is the almighty being, he decides what is right and wrong. In Abrahamic tradition, God defines all of these arbitrary rules and expects humanity to obey them without question. Shit, God ordered Abraham himself to murder despite that supposedly being against the rules.
God is like a kid that holds a magnifying glass focused on an arbitrary point near the anthill. He set up the conditions for us to hurt ourselves according to his arbitrary rules. Why didn’t he tell Satan to fuck off with the fruit? Why did he allow Satan to exist in the first place? If God created everything, then he is responsible for everything by our human logic. So God can fuck right off
Would you rather have free will or be a mindless slave to God?
So god cannot create a world with free will and without evil?
It won’t be true free will, in that case, would it?
Huh. I don’t recall being asked if I want to die
Do you want to follow Jesus who will give you eternal life?
Oh no I didn’t mean I haven’t been asked by mortals. Are you claiming to be God?
Why does the distinction matter? I can still help show you to freedom if you’d like.
I agree, that’s why I said that God, the one who sent locusts and killed innocent children, submerged the world for 40 days killing everyone indiscriminately, and razed Sodom and Gomorrah to the ground, is the evil deity.
Sodom and Gomorrah deserved it, it was made clear in that by Lot existing. Everyone in the flood also deserved it, apart from Noah which is why Noah was saved. The “children” weren’t innocent or else God wouldn’t have killed them.
“Good deities don’t intentionally cause pain and suffering. Unless it’s God, in which case mass genocide and killing children is perfectly justified.”
All of them were perfectly valid circumstances, lol
Intentionally causing pain and suffering is kind of God’s ballpark though.
Where?
Have you ever heard of a lil’ book called The Old Testament?
That’s a collection of books. And where does God kill people unjustly?
The flood sounds quite like collective punishment.
The innocents were saved from it
Would the foetuses of any of the damned by considered guilty? I presume there must have been a few pregnant women murdered by that malevolent deity in that fairy story of your ilk (if you’re not on the wind-up, might I add).
If anyone innocent was killed, they would have went to paradise anyway
Well, there’s the Flood and the Ten Plagues (particularly that tenth one) for starters.
Then there’s the various war crimes committed by the Israelites at Jehovah’s explicit instructions (e.g. the genocide of the Midianites in Numbers 31).
The flood spared the innocents (Noah’s family) and the plagues were done because Pharaoh wouldn’t free the slaves, the blood was on Pharaoh’s hands.
God just said to avenge Israel. Moses carried out the rest of the orders.
I have a question, suppose that a different god or being did all the things said in the bible attributed to god. Are these deaths and atrocities still moral? Are they good because god did them? Or are they inherent good things to do? What if you were the one who started the flood or unleashed the plagues or anything else like that? Is the act still moral? Is the death of thousands if not moral at that point?
No, because God created man so He has authority to destroy man.
There is no reason to believe that Noah’s family were the only innocents in the Flood story. I do not know how one can pin the supposed hedonism of the world on all those young children who would have drowned.
There is also no way to excuse killing the children of thousands of people because of the actions of one man. Blaming that one man for “forcing” supposedly omnipotent being to act in that way is also unjustifiable.
And there is no way to shift blame for genocide by simply saying, “the underlings took it too far.” This excuse rings especially hollow when Jehovah asks for a cut of the spoils afterward (Numbers 31:25-31).
In the Sodom and Gomorrah story and the Jericho story, innocent people were saved. How would the great flood be any different? It’s illustrative of the extent of the hedonism.