More likely Russian air defense.

They are literally all in branches of this thread. I’m not going to keep answering the same questions over and over (many of which I already answered for you specifically).

Also covered under the threads spawning from this parent thread. I’m starting to feel trolled here, so please just read the comments under this parent thread, I’ve answered all your points already.

All of this I’ve covered in this thread except the last point.

I don’t have any problem with women competing openly and without scrutiny in men’s athletics competition because I can’t think of any sport where it would confer an advantage. If there were one, I would be against it in that sport. Though safety would still need to be a consideration in any contact sport.

Also worth mentioning, I am not against the idea of getting away from the idea of having sports separated by sex completely, and somehow tiering them by ability. But I think that would be exceedingly difficult to do in a way where it was safe and fair for everyone, especially when it comes to boxing and martial arts. But for other non contact sports, I don’t see any reason to have a division by sex at all, just have tiers from best to worst.

I don’t think any of this matters until you get to college level or olympic level sports, at which point I highly doubt it would dissuade any would be competitor. But I do think if it got bad enough it could dissuade women. For example, if you just let men compete openly and without scrutiny in any women’s athletics competition, which seems to be what some people are advocating for here.

Did you actually read said comments? I’ve said this multiple times. It’s basically the thesis of my statements.

No I can’t because there’s no data to go off of. I’m honestly unclear as to whether it’s a valid issue or not. Even in this case where the data we have seems to indicate there’s an issue, the data doesn’t seem entirely trustable. Anyone claiming complete certainty in this environment with no evidence is clearly just blindly pushing an agenda in bad faith.

Yes because outside of athletics it doesn’t really matter.

For the same reason anyone wants to know anything. Because if anyone is to have an informed conversation about this, we need to know how they come to their conclusions. Their lack of transparency is a large part of why this controversy exists in the first place.

When did I say I didn’t like their decision? I said I wanted more information.

Anyone who fails the tests for the other cases you list. The governing body of the sport gets to decide, and tests are decided by scientists and doctors.

Fair enough. But why not handle these exceptions in the rules then? If they don’t confer a major competitive advantage then let them compete as the sex they feel like.

But I don’t think we can draw this out to a full blown man who identifies as a woman so gets to compete against women. As usual, there is a sensible middle ground, and you have to get into the weeds a bit to sort it out.

Its like people who say only “pure capitalism” or “pure communism” is the best system, when in fact they are both garbage options, and the best is actually capitalism constrained by socialist policies like in Scandinavia. Yes, it’s messy and complicated and hard to figure out, but that’s pretty much always the case for coming to the best result.

The extremes on either side are almost always wrong.

No, I’m not saying I believe him, and yes I would like to see the evidence. It’s pretty hard to draw conclusions without it.

And no I don’t support genital inspections of 12 year old girls, and frankly don’t think genital inspections are probably the best way to decide this. I think chromosomes and hormone levels are probably the best we have, and maybe there’s just a class for athletes that fall outside the norms for their sex, similar to weight classes, because it’s pretty clear that it does give a huge advantage.

But it’s worth considering that maybe 12 year olds just shouldn’t be in the Olympics in the first place.

A man with the same body weight as a woman would still inherently have more upper body strength and higher ability to gain it as that’s just how men are built vs women. It’s still not a fair way of setting intersex classes.

As far as I can tell, that reliable information isn’t out there other than the fact that a Russian judge said she tested as XY and that she’s tested for high testosterone. I’d say XY is a pretty good starting place to call someone male or at least not traditionally female, if that test can be trusted.

But I think a lot of the controversy here comes from a lack of trustable info.

I don’t think it’s fair to penalize a woman who works all her life to get to a certain level and just make her compete against someone who maybe hasn’t had to work at all because they are physically male. If anything, we need to make a class for people who are physically male but presenting female.

It’s one thing to work within the limits of your physique to become stronger, better, etc. It’s another thing to have a totally different physique that gives you a starting point higher than can be achieved naturally by anyone else.

The only way to get this rich is by exploiting others and almost definitely breaking laws. These people all have a screw loose somewhere.

Do you really think it’s fair for a full blown man to fight women in the ring just because he identifies as a woman? Women will get very seriously hurt or possibly killed fighting someone assigned male sex at birth. I have no problem letting them do anything that doesn’t hurt others, but this is a case where I think we need to be more sensible.