Thousands of children in Gaza have been admitted to hospitals for malnutrition, but even as they waste away, doctors’ options for treating them have been depleted.
Even if you don’t like their stance on some things, they provide very good information and actionable anti-Apartheid steps the average person can take. If you think one of their stances is counterproductive then just… don’t follow it. I’m certainly for cooperating with unequivocally anti-Apartheid Israelis, but for purely tactical reasons it makes sense for BDS to oppose it. As the leading anti-Zionist international organization they kind of do set the tone for anti-Zionist action, and it’s a lot easier to make a program more moderate than more radical.
Boycotting everything Israel also harms Palestinians.
Lemme reword that for you: “Boycotting South Africa also harms black Africans”. Do you see the problem now? Israel must not be allowed to use Palestinians’ economic security as a hostage against the international anti-Zionist movement; that’d basically mean giving up.
So consider this before you blindly support BDS. If you hate Israel and want to see it destroyed, sure go ahead. If you want peaceful coexistence, BDS is not the way.
As I said above even if you think they’re too radical or whatever at this stage of the anti-Zionist struggle anti-Zionist action will take the same form no matter where you ultimately want to end up. That aside, though, why the heck would I not want Israel gone? The prospect of peaceful coexistence with Israel is about as attractive as peaceful coexistence with Nazi Germany; dismantle that shit and build a real democracy in its place.
Hmm… North Korea would be in second place on my list after Israel, and I’d throw a party if the US dissolved into its member states. Additionally Russia seems to be a good candidate since its current structure allows ethnic Russians in Eastern Europe to oppress everyone from Georgians in West Asia to Siberians East Asians. Oh I’d also redraw the borders of Africa along ethnic and religious lines and remove Xinjiang and other oppressed territories from China. I’m more surprised by your claim that there are no states in the world you’d like to dismantle and rebuild/reincorporate into something better; that seems awfully dedicated to a generally pretty shitty status quo.
I noticed you saying Levant instead of Palestine. If you really want peace why do you try to erase Palestinian identity? That aside yes, it’s called nuance. Such borders are possible and desirable in Africa because ethnicities there follow nice geographic distributions, while in Palestine Jewish settlement had no geographic basis and therefore it’s impossible to draw borders that would satisfy both sides. Also, Zionists have already shown that they can’t be trusted to have their own state and not use it for ethnic cleansing.
This betrays your lacking knowledge of Jewish settlement.
Also I don’t know if it’s more racist towards Africans, Jews, or Palestinians. You seem to have expectations below the floor for all of them. They can be happy to have you as their white savior.
This betrays your lacking knowledge of Jewish settlement.
You do realize the borders of what supposed to be Israel included more than half the Palestinian population right? This betrays your lacking knowledge of Palestinian and Israeli history.
You seem to have expectations below the floor for all of them. They can be happy to have you as their white savior.
Okay if you think malicious European-drawn borders in Africa haven’t been massive sources if instability and conflict in sub Saharan Africa then you should learn more history before talking about this stuff.
Of course borders in Africa are a clusterfuck. Remember that the borders in the Middle East are also a bit whack. The border at the Jordan river separates majority Palestinian populations on both sides. The border between Syria and Israel separates the Druze. The Kurds don’t have a state at all.
You are talking about the 1947 partition plan. That plan meant nobody would have to leave their land and a minority of the other side would live in the Jewish and Arab state respectively. Zionists accepted the plan, the Arabs rejected it.
I was talking about the population today. Two states with minorities are still possible. Same as you want in Africa.
I was talking about the population today. Two states with minorities are still possible.
Yeah here’s the big problem with the two state solution both then and now: Zionists don’t fucking want it. They never wanted it. I’ll avoid going on a rant about Zionist bad faith negotiation, but would you say that Zionists have gotten more or less radical since partition? Because Ben Gurion is on record saying “We must expel the Arabs and take their place”. More recently Zionists took the only man with the sanity and spine to attempt to put an end to all this, Yitzhak Rabin, and fucking killed him so they could continue their ethnic cleansing project. The man who took his place and ended negotiations with the PLO is Netanyahu, the so-called king of Israeli politics.
Anyway, since Zionists don’t want peace of any kind, they’ll have to be forced into it, and if they have to be forced to accept peace anyway we might as well advocate for a truly just peace rather than a compromise doomed to fail, hence the one state solution.
Same as you want in Africa.
20% ethnicity Y in a state allocated to ethnicity X is not a viable partition model, neither in Palestine or Africa. If there are ethnicities in Africa where that’s the best partition model that can be done then I’d drop partition there too.
Even if you don’t like their stance on some things, they provide very good information and actionable anti-Apartheid steps the average person can take. If you think one of their stances is counterproductive then just… don’t follow it. I’m certainly for cooperating with unequivocally anti-Apartheid Israelis, but for purely tactical reasons it makes sense for BDS to oppose it. As the leading anti-Zionist international organization they kind of do set the tone for anti-Zionist action, and it’s a lot easier to make a program more moderate than more radical.
Lemme reword that for you: “Boycotting South Africa also harms black Africans”. Do you see the problem now? Israel must not be allowed to use Palestinians’ economic security as a hostage against the international anti-Zionist movement; that’d basically mean giving up.
As I said above even if you think they’re too radical or whatever at this stage of the anti-Zionist struggle anti-Zionist action will take the same form no matter where you ultimately want to end up. That aside, though, why the heck would I not want Israel gone? The prospect of peaceful coexistence with Israel is about as attractive as peaceful coexistence with Nazi Germany; dismantle that shit and build a real democracy in its place.
Thank you for making my point. Your goal is the destruction of Israel.
What other countries do you want dismantled?
Hmm… North Korea would be in second place on my list after Israel, and I’d throw a party if the US dissolved into its member states. Additionally Russia seems to be a good candidate since its current structure allows ethnic Russians in Eastern Europe to oppress everyone from Georgians in West Asia to Siberians East Asians. Oh I’d also redraw the borders of Africa along ethnic and religious lines and remove Xinjiang and other oppressed territories from China. I’m more surprised by your claim that there are no states in the world you’d like to dismantle and rebuild/reincorporate into something better; that seems awfully dedicated to a generally pretty shitty status quo.
You demand in Africa what you abhor in the Levant. That’s exactly what the two state solution wants.
Ethnostates for everyone, but the Jews!
I noticed you saying Levant instead of Palestine. If you really want peace why do you try to erase Palestinian identity? That aside yes, it’s called nuance. Such borders are possible and desirable in Africa because ethnicities there follow nice geographic distributions, while in Palestine Jewish settlement had no geographic basis and therefore it’s impossible to draw borders that would satisfy both sides. Also, Zionists have already shown that they can’t be trusted to have their own state and not use it for ethnic cleansing.
This betrays your lacking knowledge of Jewish settlement.
Also I don’t know if it’s more racist towards Africans, Jews, or Palestinians. You seem to have expectations below the floor for all of them. They can be happy to have you as their white savior.
You do realize the borders of what supposed to be Israel included more than half the Palestinian population right? This betrays your lacking knowledge of Palestinian and Israeli history.
Okay if you think malicious European-drawn borders in Africa haven’t been massive sources if instability and conflict in sub Saharan Africa then you should learn more history before talking about this stuff.
Of course borders in Africa are a clusterfuck. Remember that the borders in the Middle East are also a bit whack. The border at the Jordan river separates majority Palestinian populations on both sides. The border between Syria and Israel separates the Druze. The Kurds don’t have a state at all.
You are talking about the 1947 partition plan. That plan meant nobody would have to leave their land and a minority of the other side would live in the Jewish and Arab state respectively. Zionists accepted the plan, the Arabs rejected it.
I was talking about the population today. Two states with minorities are still possible. Same as you want in Africa.
Weird, because I remember a whole lot of people leaving their land.
Yeah here’s the big problem with the two state solution both then and now: Zionists don’t fucking want it. They never wanted it. I’ll avoid going on a rant about Zionist bad faith negotiation, but would you say that Zionists have gotten more or less radical since partition? Because Ben Gurion is on record saying “We must expel the Arabs and take their place”. More recently Zionists took the only man with the sanity and spine to attempt to put an end to all this, Yitzhak Rabin, and fucking killed him so they could continue their ethnic cleansing project. The man who took his place and ended negotiations with the PLO is Netanyahu, the so-called king of Israeli politics.
Anyway, since Zionists don’t want peace of any kind, they’ll have to be forced into it, and if they have to be forced to accept peace anyway we might as well advocate for a truly just peace rather than a compromise doomed to fail, hence the one state solution.
20% ethnicity Y in a state allocated to ethnicity X is not a viable partition model, neither in Palestine or Africa. If there are ethnicities in Africa where that’s the best partition model that can be done then I’d drop partition there too.
You will never get engagement when asking people defending Israel about South Africa or Rhodesia.
They will either ignore the question, or act confused why you’d being up ‘countries that don’t exist anymore’ in bad faith.