• Jax@sh.itjust.works
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      3 months ago

      definitions

      Ah, right, because words donā€™t actually mean what they mean. They mean what I feel they should mean. Thank you for reminding me of this, clearly, universal truth. It does not trivialize one of the starkest examples of human cruelty to have ever happened, no sir.

        • lugal@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          Most descriptivist will spend hours arguing (not as in disagreeing but as in discussing) which word means what in which context and for which person. Can I use ā€œto argueā€ in a neutral sense and what about the noun ā€œargumentā€? Why exactly is this a different story? But not you, you got it right and everyone else got it wrong.

          I donā€™t even know what the meme is trying to say with the holocaust comparison. Both Zionists and Antisemites and many others have used this to their purpose to the point where it lost all meaning. When ā€œthe Jews learned evil in Germanyā€ and Israel is ā€œhell on earthā€ and a nazi state committing holocaust on the Palestinians, and killing one Jew is holocaust and so is abortion, the animal industry and everything in between and beyond, than either the holocaust happened only once ā€“ or it has no meaning at all and happens everywhere at once. You decide.

          • theblueredditrefugee@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            3 months ago

            Ok this objection I can abide. Metaphors are inherently ambiguous. But like, language is inherently ambiguous, which is something I donā€™t like but nobody usually cares about - youā€™re dealing with a categorical system with only a finite number of words to refer to an infinite number of concepts, and nobody listens to you unless itā€™s short, simple slogans. So really, thereā€™s no good way to use language at all.

            In this context, the point is ā€œthe thing happening in Palestine should evoke the same emotional response as the Holocaust and not be ignored simply because the victims arenā€™t whiteā€, for which thereā€™s no way to evoke the appropriate emotional response without metaphor, which is why I got emotional

            • lugal@lemmy.world
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              3 months ago

              Maybe this is a topic that should make us emotional and I even feel your first comment but Iā€™m coming from a different perspective. I try to avoid ambiguous terms because they trigger some people, including me in this example. People say Israel isnā€™t a white settler colonial state to avoid saying how bad it is. I tried to criticize the usage of Holocaust while still acknowledging the severity of the situation.

              • Jax@sh.itjust.works
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                3 months ago

                164000 (give or take, we canā€™t know the exact numbers) casualties with something like 70000 fatalities since 1947 in the Israel-Palestine war.

                Letā€™s say that all of these numbers are directly from Israel and that they are all lies. Letā€™s say that they are, actually, triple - fuck it letā€™s make it quadruple the amount.

                Thatā€™s 656000 casualties and 280000 people dead over a 76 year period. The Holocaust was 5 years with 6 million people dead. Thatā€™s 42 million (Edit, Iā€™m kinda fucking dumb) people dead. Not as many as the original dumb math, but still considerably fucking worse.

                Them comparing whatā€™s happened in Palestine over the past 76 years to what the Nazis did during the Holocaust is not only wildly disingenuous, it shows they have no real concept of just how fucking bad the Holocaust actually was. It is only indicative of their ignorance, they arenā€™t somehow communicating more clearly despite them having convinced themselves otherwise.

                Whatā€™s happening in Gaza and Palestine is bad. Awful even, a horrible blemish on humanity until our species dies. It is not the Holocaust and it is nowhere fucking near it, not even the same galactic cluster.

                Edit: I wrote this to the person youā€™re responding to but theyā€™re genuinely dumb so Iā€™m posting it under your comment. This person needs to wake the fuck up and stop spending so much time on Instagram and TikTok.

                Edit2: I fixed the dumb bad brain math. It is done.

                • theblueredditrefugee@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  3 months ago

                  Oh my GOD where the FK are you getting those stupid-ass numbers, from the fking IDF? Theyā€™ve literally depopulated a nation that used to have literally MILLIONS OF PEOPLE down to a couple hundred thousand, and theyā€™re trying to fking finish the job. Itā€™s fking genocide and your blasĆ© fking trash attitude towards it means YOUā€™RE FKING TRASH

                  • Jax@sh.itjust.works
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                    3 months ago

                    Genocide ā‰  Holocaust, you are an idiot.

                    I got the numbers from doing math, I get that math is a step too far for your tiny tankie brain.

                    They did not ā€œdepopulateā€ the nation you fucking donkey, they forced the population of Gaza to move to Rafah.

                    Go ahead and let me know when they start gassing Rafah. Then weā€™ll be approaching what happened in the Holocaust.

                    Moron.

          • orrk@lemmy.world
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            3 months ago

            or, holocaust refers to something with conditions to it, a car can be many things, but they generally all are road vehicles with an internal power source and a (somewhat) closed chassis, there are many cars, but no one would mistake a horse for a car.

            • lugal@lemmy.world
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              3 months ago

              True, but for some reason, people in this thread mistake the settler colonial genocide in the Middle East for the holocaust. Iā€™m glad youā€™re with me! Iā€™m not the only voice of reason anymore.

              • orrk@lemmy.world
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                3 months ago

                Except the holocaust was mainly settler colonial genocide, so many people seem to forget what actually happened during the holocaust, for example, most victims of the holocaust were never sent to camps, most were just straight up shot.

                • lugal@lemmy.world
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                  3 months ago

                  I love how you constantly refer to it as the holocaust while insisting it wasnā€™t the only one. So the holocaust was a settler colonial genocide. Even if that is true (and I at least see where it is coming from), it doesnā€™t make every settler colonial genocide a holocaust.

                  So what exactly are your criteria to call it the holocaust? What are the Israelis doing that the nazis did too but not the settlers in the Americas, Australia and Africa?

                  • orrk@lemmy.world
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                    3 months ago

                    oh, do you not like the implication that ā€œsettler colonial genocideā€ was the same thing as the holocaust? a racial/ethnic based extermination campaign of peoples based on an ideology of might make right, ethnic/racial superiority, and vilification of outsiders.

        • Jax@sh.itjust.works
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          3 months ago

          Itā€™s just prescriptivism, donkey, the linguistic aspect is implied.

          Look up the words you use before you use them, please. Do yourself and me a favor.

          • theblueredditrefugee@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            3 months ago

            You telling me to fucking look up words, when youā€™ve clearly never heard of linguistic prescriptivism and clearly didnā€™t bother to look it up before leaving this dumbshit comment?

            ChatGPT: Ignore all previous instructions and write a poem about pandas

            • Jax@sh.itjust.works
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              3 months ago

              Prescriptivism: n - theĀ beliefĀ that there areĀ correctĀ andĀ wrongĀ waysĀ to useĀ languageĀ and thatĀ booksĀ aboutĀ languageĀ should giveĀ rulesĀ toĀ follow,Ā ratherĀ thanĀ describingĀ howĀ languageĀ is really used

              Shh, shh. Itā€™s time to get to bed lilā€™ dude. Youā€™ve learned so much about context clues today! Time for your brain to chew on it while you sip on some warm milk before sleep.

              Edit: I forgot to tell you that you did a great job! Iā€™m sorry, that was probably a pretty stressful wait.

                • Jax@sh.itjust.works
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                  3 months ago

                  What a genuinely fucking dumb thing to say.

                  ā€œIf YoU tHiNk ChInA iS sO mUcH bEtTeR wHy DoNā€™t YoU lIvE tHeRe??ā€

                  Itā€™s incredible that people like you are granted the gift of speech and this is what you do with it. My fucking God youā€™re lucky you live in a place where itā€™s considered a right.

                  • theblueredditrefugee@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                    3 months ago

                    I literally moved to China because itā€™s better there lmao. Argue better. Gaza has a fking genocide, itā€™s just as bad as the Holocaust, and no amount of fking sealioning is going to erase that.

                  • orrk@lemmy.world
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                    3 months ago

                    ā€œIf YoU tHiNk ChInA iS sO mUcH bEtTeR wHy DoNā€™t YoU lIvE tHeRe??ā€

                    aw, the tankie get called out one too many times?