What, exactly, is the problem with rejecting the humanity of people who literally believe in race science and want to literally kill you in mass genocide?
Liberals will go to any lengths to defend fascists if it means they can send one last sneer to the left, holy shit.
no, im saying we should respect their dehumanization of themselves.
it’s not a reason to do violence to them. my shoes aren’t people, and I would be upset if you fed them through a wood chipper. just a reason not to feel too bad if we need to.
no, they did that, deliberately and by choice. if you treat them like people they get mad, and I think it might be unethical if you see them as such.
unethical as in, like, violating their consent and contradicting their self image and shit. they do not consent to common human decency, and wouldn’t accept it in good faith if they could, which they cannot.
edit: think about it like using the wrong pronouns for someone because you think they’re such a cute (their AAB gender), it’s fucking rude. no matter how cute a (whatever) you think of them as. they don’t want you to.
Dude if you aren’t a troll, go and sit and really think about what you just said, because it’s both disgusting and absolutely insane. This is some deep trump cultist bullshit.
this has been explicitly stated by some fascists in the past, there was this one german guy, forget his name, after world war one, fucked him up a bunch I think, and then went hard into that masturbating-to-being-crushed-in-the-bowels-of-the-machine marionetti shit to be a super-loyal nazi with the explicitly stated goal of crushing out all the humanity from him/the world (IDR it was a footnote on something I read years ago) then switched to bolshevism when he met a lenninist, because he thought that was worse.
it’s like shitting on someone’s weird it/it’s neopronouns. treating fascists like people is rude. to the fascists. and to all the kids who played games where they shot a bunch of extremely blocky nazis growing up and dont want to have to be fucking woke about it and pretend they’re people now.
I can find these people repulsive and dangerous while acknowledging that we belong to the same species. It’s not something they’re capable of giving away, even when they act inhumanly.
It’s not like recognizing reality grants them some clemency or grace. This isn’t even the point, but if anything it damns them further, because (if you believe in free will) it means they could choose to be better.
this is, in fact, about the criteria for intelligence inclusive of non-human intelligences
we can’t just say ‘all humans are automatically in’. if you’re not going to be a bigoted piece of shit. and I think it’s pretty clear there are entirely non-hypothetical non-human people. elephants, dolphins, corvids, octopi, etc. these are persons. on top of hypothetical non-human people we might make from the thought-sand or find out amongst the stars, who we should have some metric to at least indicate personhood for.
so, if the criteria isn’t just “human” (which is bigoted as shit) then you need other criteria; a bar which it is at least hypothetically possible for a human to limbo under, with fascists being the world limbo champions. on purpose. intentionally. to the point insisting they are human and have all the capacities and fullness of humans (which, remember, they don’t want, and are mostly upset by the existence of) seems disrespectful. they’re objects. like a desk. that isn’t to say you should attack them because they’re objects. I am currently surrounded by objects that I would rather not see attacked. it just means there’s no moral dimension to any degree of self defense, if, say; my purse tries to kill me and I need to stab it.
we can’t just say ‘all humans are automatically in’.
We can. Humanity and personhood can be distinct. We can just say that. For instance a brain-dead human is still a human despite lacking all self-awareness and intelligence. That’s fine.
Not trying to be rude, but I’m not even sure what your point is. Denying a bigot’s humanity because a cuttlefish is a person… You’re making a connection somewhere that I’m just not getting.
I’m saying someone is a human being regardless of their intelligence or compassion. I think you may be going by Frank Herbert’s or another’s définition.
EDIT oh I just saw the last paragraph. I see now. I don’t disagree that fascists are lacking in certain critical faculties or even that defending your rights with violence is wrong, but I do think it’s dangerous to de-humanise others to the degree you’re doing.
For one, I don’t think humans who lack empathy, etc are P Zombies or anything, so they are capable of experiencing complex pain and distress. They’re not things.
Secondly, they can sometimes change and “become” human through experiences. Like what about the hardcore fascist 17 year old, who already had the seeds of doubt germinating in their subconscious? Undoubtedly still dangerous, but very much a full human.
lotsa shit, but fascists aren’t people. their sickness has gone so far past that.
Yes, they are. You’re espousing the dehumanization of them. Which is the problem.
What, exactly, is the problem with rejecting the humanity of people who literally believe in race science and want to literally kill you in mass genocide?
Liberals will go to any lengths to defend fascists if it means they can send one last sneer to the left, holy shit.
no, im saying we should respect their dehumanization of themselves.
it’s not a reason to do violence to them. my shoes aren’t people, and I would be upset if you fed them through a wood chipper. just a reason not to feel too bad if we need to.
no, they did that, deliberately and by choice. if you treat them like people they get mad, and I think it might be unethical if you see them as such.
unethical as in, like, violating their consent and contradicting their self image and shit. they do not consent to common human decency, and wouldn’t accept it in good faith if they could, which they cannot.
edit: think about it like using the wrong pronouns for someone because you think they’re such a cute (their AAB gender), it’s fucking rude. no matter how cute a (whatever) you think of them as. they don’t want you to.
Dude if you aren’t a troll, go and sit and really think about what you just said, because it’s both disgusting and absolutely insane. This is some deep trump cultist bullshit.
this has been explicitly stated by some fascists in the past, there was this one german guy, forget his name, after world war one, fucked him up a bunch I think, and then went hard into that masturbating-to-being-crushed-in-the-bowels-of-the-machine marionetti shit to be a super-loyal nazi with the explicitly stated goal of crushing out all the humanity from him/the world (IDR it was a footnote on something I read years ago) then switched to bolshevism when he met a lenninist, because he thought that was worse.
it’s like shitting on someone’s weird it/it’s neopronouns. treating fascists like people is rude. to the fascists. and to all the kids who played games where they shot a bunch of extremely blocky nazis growing up and dont want to have to be fucking woke about it and pretend they’re people now.
I can find these people repulsive and dangerous while acknowledging that we belong to the same species. It’s not something they’re capable of giving away, even when they act inhumanly.
It’s not like recognizing reality grants them some clemency or grace. This isn’t even the point, but if anything it damns them further, because (if you believe in free will) it means they could choose to be better.
it’s not about being the same species.
this is, in fact, about the criteria for intelligence inclusive of non-human intelligences
we can’t just say ‘all humans are automatically in’. if you’re not going to be a bigoted piece of shit. and I think it’s pretty clear there are entirely non-hypothetical non-human people. elephants, dolphins, corvids, octopi, etc. these are persons. on top of hypothetical non-human people we might make from the thought-sand or find out amongst the stars, who we should have some metric to at least indicate personhood for.
so, if the criteria isn’t just “human” (which is bigoted as shit) then you need other criteria; a bar which it is at least hypothetically possible for a human to limbo under, with fascists being the world limbo champions. on purpose. intentionally. to the point insisting they are human and have all the capacities and fullness of humans (which, remember, they don’t want, and are mostly upset by the existence of) seems disrespectful. they’re objects. like a desk. that isn’t to say you should attack them because they’re objects. I am currently surrounded by objects that I would rather not see attacked. it just means there’s no moral dimension to any degree of self defense, if, say; my purse tries to kill me and I need to stab it.
We can. Humanity and personhood can be distinct. We can just say that. For instance a brain-dead human is still a human despite lacking all self-awareness and intelligence. That’s fine.
Not trying to be rude, but I’m not even sure what your point is. Denying a bigot’s humanity because a cuttlefish is a person… You’re making a connection somewhere that I’m just not getting.
I’m saying someone is a human being regardless of their intelligence or compassion. I think you may be going by Frank Herbert’s or another’s définition.
EDIT oh I just saw the last paragraph. I see now. I don’t disagree that fascists are lacking in certain critical faculties or even that defending your rights with violence is wrong, but I do think it’s dangerous to de-humanise others to the degree you’re doing.
For one, I don’t think humans who lack empathy, etc are P Zombies or anything, so they are capable of experiencing complex pain and distress. They’re not things.
Secondly, they can sometimes change and “become” human through experiences. Like what about the hardcore fascist 17 year old, who already had the seeds of doubt germinating in their subconscious? Undoubtedly still dangerous, but very much a full human.