- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
- conservative@sh.itjust.works
- usa@midwest.social
- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
- conservative@sh.itjust.works
- usa@midwest.social
I’m not a conservative myself, but I defy any conservative intending to vote for Donald Trump to read this comparison of Washington and Trump, and to honestly tell themselves afterwards that that they believe in America and its ideals.
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His American dream is to fuck everyone over who isn’t himself. Not even family is safe if it benefits him. I can’t understand how there are still people unable to see this.
I get that some ride in his wake and make a fortune for some time, but he drags everyone into the swamp eventually.
His American dream is to fuck everyone over who isn’t himself. Not even family is safe if it benefits him. I can’t understand how there are still people unable to see this.
I am genuinely interested in hearing from people who can explain this!
That’s how cults work. Those on the inside are either unable or unwilling to see the reality of things. Those on the outside wonder how they cannot.
Many have isolated themselves (at Trump’s direction) to a media ecosystem where they aren’t being exposed to the truth about him. And when they are, he’s trained them to believe that it’s all lies. They are living in an entirely alternate reality crafted for them by Fox (and other rightwing outlets), Truth Social, and Trump and his congressional cronies.
I have family members who’ve been living in that world for years. Parroting the Fox talking points and praising Trump for what they portray him as. Like cults do, over time these things have become part of their identity…even their faith. It’s not easy to do a 180 on that. To them, it would be unthinkable to ever vote for a Democrat because that would be counter to who they are as a person. It would also be unthinkable to them that a Democrat could ever even be worthy of voting for, given all the things they’ve been “taught” about the Democrats. To them, I’m the crazy one for suggesting things might be different from what they’re hearing. They are trapped in a cult.
All that being said…the longer it goes, I think the scale is shifting from “they haven’t been exposed to the truth” to “willful ignorance of the the truth”. That really wears on my patience for them and I find myself thinking at times that there’s no excuse anymore. But I also have to remind myself how difficult it is to extract someone from a cult. And I remember that I knew these people before Trump…and they are GOOD people with good hearts. But they’ve been fooled so very thoroughly by Trumpism and what it promised them.
I’m angrier at Fox, Newsmax, OAN, and all of the elected officials who’ve propped Trump up and peddled his brand than I am at his supporters who’ve been fooled by them. Without them, Trump is nothing. He could have been a laughing stock that we would have just moved on from if they hadn’t championed him, lied about him and his opponents, sanitized his worst moments, etc.They truly have shaped their viewer’s minds about Trump and about the Democrats. It’s enraging.
What puzzles me is not so much the stuff they refuse to believe as the stuff they acknowledge he said and did, but then try to pretend doesn’t matter.
Yeah, I totally get it. So much mental gymnastics to make it all make sense and essentially to give themselves permission to believe what they want to believe. A lot of them that I interact with don’t seem to think very deeply about it. For some of them, I definitely think that’s intentional because they know if they did, they would have to face some things that they don’t want to. And if they had to change their stance, that would make them an outcast in their social groups and in their families and they’re not willing to do that.
I used to spend so much time trying to talk my parents down from the conspiracy theories they were hearing and repeating. But I just couldn’t keep up with it and the more I tried to discredit it (even with proof), the more it seemed to just push them deeper into it.
My dad continues to make comments suggesting that “the things we’ve been taught” aren’t true…and then goes on about some conspiracy theory. And I just want to say to him, ok…you clearly have this sense that you’re being lied to. But it’s like you will look everywhere for the lies except for where the lies are actually coming from!
it’s like you will look everywhere for the lies except for where the lies are actually coming from
This is the worst thing about conspiracy theorists. Like the car industry, for example, really is responsible for killing millions of people, more or less deliberately, and lying about it. But all the conspiracy theorists think more or less the opposite is the case: that there’s this great big anti-car conspiracy out there somewhere.
Now I wonder if this will end like other cults ended. Kool-Aid, FBI and media in helicopters.
Y’all need to accept at this point conservatives who support Trump do not give a shit. They don’t care if they come across as hypocrites. They are not acting in good faith and there are literally no consequences for them. Your only weapon at this point is to vote and crush them so resoundingly in the polls that they realise they are not the new normal and the majority does not respect them.
Yeah, this is correct. Nazis intentionally un-bind themselves from things like decency, the spirit of cooperation, and the social contract so they can cheat better.
Amazingly, tons of non-nazis fall for it and keep acting like if they get huffy enough, the nazis will come off it, re-button their top button, and start playing nice.
Republicans are actively working to destroy America. Sober up and act accordingly.
Considering this was a religious white-sumpremcist slave owner when only white men were considered people, idk if he would be THAT mad with this new vision.
He had his flaws, no doubt, and being an enslaver was the biggest one. The article does cover this, however.
If he gets in its 4 years suck it up and move on. Then in 4years time campaign harder against him. Thats how democracy works.
He is promising a programme of economic recession, trade war, an end to the free press and ethnic cleansing. That’s not how democracy works, it how it ends.
Exactly. The guard rails that kept Trump in check and protected democracy in his first term will not be there for his second. They are making sure of that.
If he gets in its 4 years suck it up and move on. Then in 4years time campaign harder against him. Thats how democracy works.
What a terrible take. This is either an incredibly uninformed opinion, or a Trump troll not arguing in good faith.
Exactly. The guard rails that kept Trump in check and protected democracy in his first term will not be there for his second. They are making sure of that.
Where did they go? Did biden remove them? Did big bussiness remove them?
What a terrible take. This is either an incredibly uninformed opinion, or a Trump troll not arguing in good faith.
I dont live in a 3rd world country like america. My opinion is formed by observing ur cluster fuck of a country from outside while i enjoy my socialised healthcare and schools without guns. You can’t see the forest for the trees. And thus my perspective although no more valid than yours is arguably more informed in a balanced and nuanced way. Also this is bad faith schoolyard insults stop it.
Where did they go?
I don’t blame you for not knowing, since you aren’t from the US, but the Republicans have spent the past decade denying federal judge positions (including the Supreme court) from being filled, and they are being filled with partial judges that are corrupt and exceptionally loyal to the Republican Party. Already because of that, courts are allowing blatantly unconstitutional laws and actions by Republicans (such as the presidential immunity ruling earlier this year to protect Trump), as well as dismantling established precedent that protected people and allowed the function of our government. Another four years would dramatically increase that, but more importantly, the checks to authority that previously existed (in the form of judicial oversight) is basically gone.
Additionally, the threat of some kind of consequences have kept Trump in check to some degree, and the past four years have shown that no longer is a concern.
So yes, the guard rails are off, and they have a whole goddamn plan known to anybody who isn’t deliberately ignoring it to allow them to continue to accumulate unchecked power.
But yeah, it’s just four years, I’m sure no real damage can be done in that time and we can just vote him out, as long as our democracy lasts that long and votes even matter (considering electors can apparently just claim an election is fake news and just choose whoever they want, or governors can just appoint other electors to replace the real ones with no consequences).
And yeah, school yard insults are something we should avoid. They aren’t idiots, they’re fascists, authoritarians.
the Republicans have spent the past decade denying federal judge positions (including the Supreme court) from being filled, and they are being filled with partial judges that are corrupt and exceptionally loyal to the Republican Party.
how have thw republicans got away with this without the democrats doing the same thing?
courts are allowing blatantly unconstitutional laws and actions by Republicans (such as the presidential immunity ruling earlier this year to protect Trump),
Did presidential immunity get ruled on? Why cant biden just order the execution of trump since hes such a threat to democracy.
Additionally, the threat of some kind of consequences have kept Trump in check to some degree, and the past four years have shown that no longer is a concern.
Im sure the 2 attempts on his life are also keeping him in check as well eyyy.
So yes, the guard rails are off, and they have a whole goddamn plan known to anybody who isn’t deliberately ignoring it to allow them to continue to accumulate unchecked power.
Project 2025 is extremist bullshit that will never see the light of day. Its zelouts spreading fear and doubt as thats good for bussiness.
But yeah, it’s just four years, I’m sure no real damage can be done in that time and we can just vote him out, as long as our democracy lasts that long and votes even matter
Maybe if everyone had a gun maybe you could ensure that democracy lasts that long (thats what the founding father thought). Ur e-voting machines get hacked every year at defcon i already doubt if ur votes count.
And yeah, school yard insults are something we should avoid. They aren’t idiots, they’re fascists, authoritarians.
Stop diluting words that used to carry real meaning to word vomit insults that get said every 15seconds as some attempt to smear charecter.
Id like harris to win purly cos its the only hope ukraine has. But i recon it would be funny af if trump won cos u will still have democracy in 4 years.
Ur countries politics on both sides is captured by big bussiness who are bussy distracting you with a culture war, telling both sides the other is coming to kill democracy. The corporations are fucking you they havw captured ur regulatory agencies and ur politicians. They pledge allegiance to the bottom line, and u arguing about politics is a usefull distraction.
Last time trump was in i made lots of $$$ on my stocks. A trade war with china is kinda nessasary if u have seen their human rights record. There has been more government censorship with biden than there was with trump. Im not aware of the ethnic clensing trump has proposed (unless u mean leaving ukraine to die?) id like a source pls.
Democracy does not enforce ethics or morals in enforces the opinions of the majority. For example hamus is a democraticly ellected government and terrorist organisation they are simply enforcing the majority opinion of the Palestinian people. Israel has a democraticly elected government and are enforcing the majority opinion of the Israeli people. Both sides are responsible for human rights atrocities and sometimes thats just how democracy works.
Stock markets do better under Democratic presidents, as a matter of fact, so if your main motivation is your stocks, you’re better off with Harris.
Trump isn’t promising a trade war with China, he’s planning a trade war with the entire rest of the world. This will make many people poorer, but especially Americans, because the taxes he’s proposing will be paid by Americans who rely on imported goods (which is pratically all of them, but especially the poorest). It will also make the rest of the world more reliant on China, so if that’s your issue, you should be opposed to his plans in this area.
The ethnic cleansing is his plan for mass deportations, which themselves would constitute ethnic cleansing. Combined with his assertions that it doesn’t matter if you’re a legal immigrant, it’s clear his plans would involve ethnic cleansing.
Hamas was democratically elected originally, but it never allowed another election, which is why Palestine is not a democracy any more.
There is in fact strong evidence that the Israelis are not happy with their government or its policies and do not support what it’s doing. There is, in any case, more to democracy than just voting, and certainly more than having had a vote at some point in the past. ‘Democracy’, however defined, does not justify human rights atrocities.
Stock markets do better under Democratic presidents, as a matter of fact, so if your main motivation is your stocks, you’re better off with Harris.
I was simply providing a personal anecdote. I actyally do wanr harria not trumo but then again i dont get a vote.
Trump isn’t promising a trade war with China, he’s planning a trade war with the entire rest of the world. This will make many people poorer, but especially Americans, because the taxes he’s proposing will be paid by Americans who rely on imported goods (which is pratically all of them, but especially the poorest). It will also make the rest of the world more reliant on China, so if that’s your issue, you should be opposed to his plans in this area.
U guys need more industry to combat china and the growing global decent. If the cost of increasing ur and ur allies (me) industry is poorer poor people in ur country thats not really my problem. Why does it make the rest of the world more reliant on china u cannot propose an effect without justification of how its a result of the cause.
The ethnic cleansing is his plan for mass deportations, which themselves would constitute ethnic cleansing. Combined with his assertions that it doesn’t matter if you’re a legal immigrant, it’s clear his plans would involve ethnic cleansing.
If ur not a citizen and dont have a visa then u have no rights to stay. The courts wont let him deport legal immigrants but maybe legal immigrants are different to legal immigrants. Also if the forced removal (deportation) of people who are illegally in an area is ethnic clensing then ukraine forcfully removing Russians from their territory is ethnic cleansing. Ur take sounds like doublethink assuming u support ukraine.
Hamas was democratically elected originally, but it never allowed another election, which is why Palestine is not a democracy any more.
Sure. They still committed atrocities while they where a democraticly elected government tho.
There is in fact strong evidence that the Israelis are not happy with their government or its policies and do not support what it’s doing. There is, in any case, more to democracy than just voting, and certainly more than having had a vote at some point in the past.
I guess we will find out the next time the Israelis go vote.
‘Democracy’, however defined, does not justify human rights atrocities.
Thats my point and why i brought up israel Palestine. Whatever ur opunion it forces you to aknowlege this fact.
If people can’t trade with Americe, due to Trump’s trade wars, they will become more reliant on the world’s other major industrial exporter, which is China. It will do nothing to improve manfacturing elsewhere, including in the US. The point of economic policy is to make people wealthier. If it makes them poorer, which you seem to acknowledge it will, it’s a bad policy.
Fighting an invading force is not ethnic cleansing. I don’t know why you think it is.
If people can’t trade with Americe, due to Trump’s trade wars, they will become more reliant on the world’s other major industrial exporter, which is China.
Only people who are being tariffed
It will do nothing to improve manfacturing elsewhere, including in the US.
The point of a trade war is to apply taxes to imported goods thus giving local industry an oppertunity to compete with imports at a fair market price. Manufacturing in the western world costs more due to no slave labour worker protections etc, u tariff imports to account for this additional price that u dont pay for manufacturing in china etc. As America represents the interests of most of the western world this also means my countries goods we be more competitive in the american (and global western) market.
The point of economic policy is to make people wealthier. If it makes them poorer, which you seem to acknowledge it will, it’s a bad policy.
The point of economic policy is to improve the economy (not the people). American international evonomic policy is just as much about ensuring global security and the liberty we all enjoy. Poor people in the short term in exchange for many more jobs and actuall material goods being produced in the future is still the better decision.
Fighting an invading force is not ethnic cleansing. I don’t know why you think it is.
I dont think it is thats the point. How would u classify “invading force”? Cos some people would classify illegal immigrants as such so whats the difference?
Only people who are being tariffed
Per Trump’s plan, that’s everyone.
The point of economic policy is to improve the economy (not the people)
This is completely backwards. There’s no abstraction called the economy which doesn’t involve people.
Cos some people would classify illegal immigrants as such so whats the difference?
Those people are wrong.
It won’t be if he wins and we all–including you–know it.
I dont think so. There is so much money from companies and countries across the globe that relies on a stable democracy to hold their money (hence the global reserve currency). America is simply to big to fail.
He wouldn’t be able to run again if he won this time.
Unless he’s gonna just ignore the laws and the supreme Court would just let him break laws because they said the president is above the law but that would be silly.
