Yeah I am not only talking about trans people though. Cis men can struggle with their masculinity too. And I would give you the “they mean the toxic men with crazy requirements to others” but when we claim that we are about making people feel comfortable and included, which at least I do. Then we need to ask ourselves if there is inclusive language that you should use, is there exclusive language that we shouldn’t use. What is exclusive language? And the answer is e.g. saying that a man that struggles with manliness is not a man. Sure, the suffering of trans men are worse than e.g. a cis man that doesn’t feel manly, but we shouldn’t play the victim Olympics but support each other in our struggles. And a blanket statement that ridiculous men who want to feel manly, is just toxic language. Generalization is the issue. I am firmly in support of people who struggle with gender or ethnicity or anything similar. We are brothers and sisters and I don’t like them bullied. I want them comfortable.
If you would be upset over someone making fun of a trans man’s struggle of feeling like man, maybe don’t make fun of a cis man.
If you aren’t upset over someone making fun of a trans man’s struggle of feeling like a man, you are an asshole.
I think it is fair to understand it as “if you have to say that you want to feel manly, you aren’t”
I think I’ve read it differently and this was the source of misunderstanding. I understood it as you should do what you feel like doing and not saying others that it’s a manly thing to do.
I heavily reject the notion that you or me get to decide what makes someone feel manly
Absolutely agree.
why are we judging men for expressing that they want to feel like a man without asking them what the fuck they mean?
This, I think is the same misunderstanding of mine, I didn’t understand that as expressing the fair desire to feel like a man, but as demanding confirmation from others.
Regarding the inclusion, I think you’re right and I am just too toxic myself and too pessimistic. I agree that it would be better to create an inclusive environment and try to support everyone and maybe even fix the toxic masculinity in some. This is a complicated task but a worthy one
I see your perspective and we share the opinion that you should do what you want (with the usual limitations)
I don’t read it as that in this case because the post in the picture is hostile. The comment provides an example of something that is bad but the initial message by a different author is already hostile. The “aunt” clearly express the dismissal that I have the issue with and the reaction gif is ridiculing men.
Why would I read it as “be yourself❤️” if the content is dismissing your personal experience/feelings and even identity from the get-go? ( Rhetorical question) I feel like I am clearly being told to read it as a hostile message.
Yeah I am not only talking about trans people though. Cis men can struggle with their masculinity too. And I would give you the “they mean the toxic men with crazy requirements to others” but when we claim that we are about making people feel comfortable and included, which at least I do. Then we need to ask ourselves if there is inclusive language that you should use, is there exclusive language that we shouldn’t use. What is exclusive language? And the answer is e.g. saying that a man that struggles with manliness is not a man. Sure, the suffering of trans men are worse than e.g. a cis man that doesn’t feel manly, but we shouldn’t play the victim Olympics but support each other in our struggles. And a blanket statement that ridiculous men who want to feel manly, is just toxic language. Generalization is the issue. I am firmly in support of people who struggle with gender or ethnicity or anything similar. We are brothers and sisters and I don’t like them bullied. I want them comfortable.
If you would be upset over someone making fun of a trans man’s struggle of feeling like man, maybe don’t make fun of a cis man.
If you aren’t upset over someone making fun of a trans man’s struggle of feeling like a man, you are an asshole.
I think I’ve read it differently and this was the source of misunderstanding. I understood it as you should do what you feel like doing and not saying others that it’s a manly thing to do.
Absolutely agree.
This, I think is the same misunderstanding of mine, I didn’t understand that as expressing the fair desire to feel like a man, but as demanding confirmation from others.
Regarding the inclusion, I think you’re right and I am just too toxic myself and too pessimistic. I agree that it would be better to create an inclusive environment and try to support everyone and maybe even fix the toxic masculinity in some. This is a complicated task but a worthy one
I see your perspective and we share the opinion that you should do what you want (with the usual limitations)
I don’t read it as that in this case because the post in the picture is hostile. The comment provides an example of something that is bad but the initial message by a different author is already hostile. The “aunt” clearly express the dismissal that I have the issue with and the reaction gif is ridiculing men.
Why would I read it as “be yourself❤️” if the content is dismissing your personal experience/feelings and even identity from the get-go? ( Rhetorical question) I feel like I am clearly being told to read it as a hostile message.