• Flax@feddit.uk
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      8 months ago

      Good deities don’t intentionally cause pain and suffering and drag everyone down with them. There’s nothing good about Satan.

        • Flax@feddit.uk
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          8 months ago

          If going by Christian theology, literally every atrocity in human history was caused by Satan. Even if fictional, there’s literally no redeeming qualities of Satan

          • kofe@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            Interesting, so who created the fruit of knowledge? Who then decided that we would die and feel pain? Who flooded the earth? Who took up a bet to torture job? And that’s barely scraping the old testament

            Meanwhile, who offered food and water to a starving madman in the desert?

            • Flax@feddit.uk
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              8 months ago

              We decided we’d die and feel pain. We deserved the flood, and it was literally satan who tortured Job. satan didn’t even offer Jesus food, he just told Him to turn the rocks into food with His own power.

              • TheBeege@lemmy.world
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                8 months ago

                You missed a very, very important keyword there: “deserved.”

                Theologians miss a key point of rational debate where they don’t provide proper definitions and make big assumptions that aren’t great.

                Who defines what the “correct” effect of an action is? Who defines what consequence is deserved by a choice? If God is the almighty being, he decides what is right and wrong. In Abrahamic tradition, God defines all of these arbitrary rules and expects humanity to obey them without question. Shit, God ordered Abraham himself to murder despite that supposedly being against the rules.

                God is like a kid that holds a magnifying glass focused on an arbitrary point near the anthill. He set up the conditions for us to hurt ourselves according to his arbitrary rules. Why didn’t he tell Satan to fuck off with the fruit? Why did he allow Satan to exist in the first place? If God created everything, then he is responsible for everything by our human logic. So God can fuck right off

                  • kofe@lemmy.world
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                    8 months ago

                    Oh no I didn’t mean I haven’t been asked by mortals. Are you claiming to be God?

      • Aielman15@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        I agree, that’s why I said that God, the one who sent locusts and killed innocent children, submerged the world for 40 days killing everyone indiscriminately, and razed Sodom and Gomorrah to the ground, is the evil deity.

        • Flax@feddit.uk
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          8 months ago

          Sodom and Gomorrah deserved it, it was made clear in that by Lot existing. Everyone in the flood also deserved it, apart from Noah which is why Noah was saved. The “children” weren’t innocent or else God wouldn’t have killed them.

          • Aielman15@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            “Good deities don’t intentionally cause pain and suffering. Unless it’s God, in which case mass genocide and killing children is perfectly justified.”

            • Flax@feddit.uk
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              8 months ago

              That’s a collection of books. And where does God kill people unjustly?

                  • Gort@lemm.ee
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                    8 months ago

                    Would the foetuses of any of the damned by considered guilty? I presume there must have been a few pregnant women murdered by that malevolent deity in that fairy story of your ilk (if you’re not on the wind-up, might I add).

              • BenVimes@lemmy.ca
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                8 months ago

                Well, there’s the Flood and the Ten Plagues (particularly that tenth one) for starters.

                Then there’s the various war crimes committed by the Israelites at Jehovah’s explicit instructions (e.g. the genocide of the Midianites in Numbers 31).

                • Flax@feddit.uk
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                  8 months ago

                  The flood spared the innocents (Noah’s family) and the plagues were done because Pharaoh wouldn’t free the slaves, the blood was on Pharaoh’s hands.

                  God just said to avenge Israel. Moses carried out the rest of the orders.

                  • BenVimes@lemmy.ca
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                    8 months ago

                    There is no reason to believe that Noah’s family were the only innocents in the Flood story. I do not know how one can pin the supposed hedonism of the world on all those young children who would have drowned.

                    There is also no way to excuse killing the children of thousands of people because of the actions of one man. Blaming that one man for “forcing” supposedly omnipotent being to act in that way is also unjustifiable.

                    And there is no way to shift blame for genocide by simply saying, “the underlings took it too far.” This excuse rings especially hollow when Jehovah asks for a cut of the spoils afterward (Numbers 31:25-31).

                  • JayJay@lemmy.world
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                    8 months ago

                    I have a question, suppose that a different god or being did all the things said in the bible attributed to god. Are these deaths and atrocities still moral? Are they good because god did them? Or are they inherent good things to do? What if you were the one who started the flood or unleashed the plagues or anything else like that? Is the act still moral? Is the death of thousands if not moral at that point?