Wanting to leave NATO, withholding weapons from Ukraine and talking to Putin isn’t exactly “working against” fascism. That’s very much the Neville Chamberlain approach … but even he came to his sense after the full scale invasion started. Can’t say the same for die Linke.
That seems even more revisionist. If anything I’d have expected it from Winston “I believe in Aryan race science” Churchill.
Chamberlain was buying time for rearmament. It wasn’t actually necessary and it was, in fact, pretty fucking stupid because Germany was rearming faster than France and Britain put together, and his betrayal of Czechoslovakia with their fortified border was even more galling in face of it, but the idea wasn’t to ally with Germany as far as I’ve seen anyone claim.
The British spent the entire 1930s claiming that Britain and Nazi Germany will be a bulwark against communism and signed three pacts with Hitler which were all directly against the Soviet Union: the Four Powers Pact meant to exclude and isolate the Soviets, the Naval Agreement meant Germany could have a navy up 35% of the British navy meaning it wouldn’t threaten British empire but every country on the Baltic sea… i.e. the Soviet Union, and finally the Munich Betrayal which was understood to be a gesture of a “free hand” (British diplomat’s words not mine) for Hitler to go east.
In spite of these difficulties Lord Halifax and other members of the British Government were fully aware that the Fuhrer had not only achieved a great deal inside Germany herself, but that, by destroying Communism in his country, he had barred its road to Western Europe, and that Germany therefore could rightly be regarded as a bulwark of the West against Bolshevism
In spite of these difficulties Lord Halifax recognized that the Chancellor had not only performed great services in Germany, but also, as he would no doubt feel, had been able by preventing the entry of Communism into his own country, to bar Its passage further West. The Prime Minister held the view that it should be possible to find a solution of out differences by an open exchange of views
When the Soviets liberated Germany they were able to get a huge cache of British diplomatic documents. The Soviets released the above book and Documents And Materials Relating To The Eve Of The Second World War Vol. 2 full to the brim of diplomats praising Nazi Germany as a twin pillar alongside Britain stopping communism.
Don’t care, I’d rather live under the neolib European governments any day than a fascist Russian shithole. It’s not even a difficult choice. It’s not like there’s some leftist utopia as an alternative. The neolibs don’t murder gay people and don’t decriminalize violence against women as a state policy.
So did the warsaw packt and russia today even has them lead armys again. Your point?
While not fully denazifying west germany didnt hide their identities and they were out right critisised. Especially when a former office nazi got elected chanclor (Kurt Kissinger). He even got hit and boohed in public. Behind the iron curtain they outright hid the nazis. Hired SS and Gestapo for the Stasi (unlike the west).
I am comparing it because i know thats where you are going with your argument
While the Warhaw pact did have their own limited project paperclip it is a fact it was the west that fully incorporated the nazis into their regime.
The point being they both were anti-communist.
The west also helped escape 1000’s of the worst SS nazi warcriminals (ukranians) and relocated them to Canada.
What was their use?
There is zero equivalence and you can’t find more than some cherrypicked examples.
To the Russians some could be used but were their enemies, unlike the west where they had plenty of fascist sympathisers in Europe or N America. https://ebeggin.substack.com/p/ratlines-nato-and-the-fourth-reich
“and russia today even has them lead armys again”
LOL is that your claim? Let me say it for you, Ill cherrypick Dimitry Utkin for you bcs because i know where you are going with your argument.
A guy from a private militia who is in no way part of the Russian army, as events later made abundantly clear.
You can find individual nazis in almost every country.
Guess who those Russian nazis are fighting for? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/03/04/russian-neo-nazi-hooligan-who-led-anti-putin-militia-across/
Ukraine has multible openly fascist batalions like Azov, Sich, Tornado and plenty more.
Where WW2 warcriminals are honored, etc…
And let’s not forget how the west now whitewashes the horrible Navalny, who organised the Russian marches before they were forbidden, a racist making videos of him shooting muslims that he called cockroaches.
A disgusting criminal sold by the west as some brave hero fighting for democracy.
As riculous as saying Azov are totally not nazis anymore bcs they changed their logo.
If only Hitler would’ve done something to his swastika, he could’ve been a brave anti-commie fighter hero.
Without meaning this as a defense of Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine: go check .world mod history, every other deleted comment is “Russian troll” or “disinformation” or equivalents. If you defend a policy of censoring points of view more charitative to Russia than western narratives be open about it, it’s fine, just be aware that you’re actually doing it
Putin suckers of every calibre, including “not everything is this clear cut” motherfuckers should be shut as diligently as nazis. Their “viewpoints” are harmful and should be censored.
What is fine about censorship and banning ‘unwanted’ news sources?
People aren’t allowed to make up their own mind?
I have posted plenty of facts that got removed bcs it didn’t fit the US narrative.
There is plenty to say on the violent US instigated coup of 2014 and the horrible war commited by the Banderite regime for 8 years.
Somehow the MSM didn’t care and even whitewashed them later.
Mentioning that is not ‘Russian propaganda’.
I don’t like Putin, compareds to the US he is by far the lesser evil.
People refuse to see the manufactured consent and almost totalitarian information control.
Without NATO, we’re going back into the age of territorial conquests and nationalist revenge campaigns. Russia and China aren’t the only countries where this crap is normalized (see Hungary - lot of my fellow Hungarians thinks Slovaks are just Hungarians forced to take up a Slavic language, and in reality they’re just a lost tribe of Magyars called “the Tóths”).
Name one agressive expansion of territory by nato.
And no. The former occupied eastern europe countrys joining nato is not military expansion. They wanted to join and are still indipendent in everything they do
What do you consider 'expansion of territory '?
That is an outdated concept.
The US has used NATO to attack and control other countries without ‘expansion’. That would be to obvious colonialism. They “intervene” (mass murder and destroy the brow people countries) then install their puppet like in Afghanistan.
They use more sneaky regime change tactics in Europe.
Ukraine was a good example, with the Nuland-Pyatt call telling them who should be president. (And “fuck the EU” OC)
in Georgia they sure tried but failed.
They are ‘bodybags’ combined with NATO weapons as Soros said in '93 explaining how NATO could destroy Russia (so peaceful). And no, there is no context.
But if they have to they blatantly bomb cities and an embassy like Yugoslavia.
The US blew up our Nordstream pipeline forcing us to buy their expensive gas and destroying our economy.
Not one peep from our bootlicking EU leaders.
That sure sounds like we’re independent.
And now the poodles complain they don’t get respect? LOL
This is another example of Schrödinger’s NATO, where actions perpetrated by the USA is blamed on the entire organisation, yet NATO is a symbol of Western imperialism.
Which is it? If all of NATO but the USA want one thing, and the USA overthrows your government, is it NATO’s fault or rather the USA’s? Are tankies blaming Iraq on NATO too?
What are you talking about.
NATO IS the USA, they decide and nobody else.
The vasals will pay for it, provide assistance and get to take care of the millions of refugees caused by it while the US plunders the poor victim of the day’s oil and resources.
If you don’t get that then it’s hopeless.
If that were so all of NATO would have joined and supported the gulf wars and Afghanistan, which didnt happen. If that were also the case, the USA and Soviet empire wouldnt have stood against britain and france (both NATO members) in the suez crisis
Had to protect the surplus profits of Capitalism at all costs. A century of wealth needed to be consolidated in the hands of the ubermensch. You know, Mohammed Bin Salmen and Amancio Ortega and Elon Musk.
Wanting to leave NATO, withholding weapons from Ukraine and talking to Putin isn’t exactly “working against” fascism. That’s very much the Neville Chamberlain approach … but even he came to his sense after the full scale invasion started. Can’t say the same for die Linke.
That’s such revisionist history. Chamberlain wasn’t appeasing Germany, he was aligning with Germany against Communist Russia.
He wasn’t surrendering, he was allying with fascism.
Source?
That seems even more revisionist. If anything I’d have expected it from Winston “I believe in Aryan race science” Churchill.
Chamberlain was buying time for rearmament. It wasn’t actually necessary and it was, in fact, pretty fucking stupid because Germany was rearming faster than France and Britain put together, and his betrayal of Czechoslovakia with their fortified border was even more galling in face of it, but the idea wasn’t to ally with Germany as far as I’ve seen anyone claim.
The British spent the entire 1930s claiming that Britain and Nazi Germany will be a bulwark against communism and signed three pacts with Hitler which were all directly against the Soviet Union: the Four Powers Pact meant to exclude and isolate the Soviets, the Naval Agreement meant Germany could have a navy up 35% of the British navy meaning it wouldn’t threaten British empire but every country on the Baltic sea… i.e. the Soviet Union, and finally the Munich Betrayal which was understood to be a gesture of a “free hand” (British diplomat’s words not mine) for Hitler to go east.
In spite of these difficulties Lord Halifax and other members of the British Government were fully aware that the Fuhrer had not only achieved a great deal inside Germany herself, but that, by destroying Communism in his country, he had barred its road to Western Europe, and that Germany therefore could rightly be regarded as a bulwark of the West against Bolshevism
In spite of these difficulties Lord Halifax recognized that the Chancellor had not only performed great services in Germany, but also, as he would no doubt feel, had been able by preventing the entry of Communism into his own country, to bar Its passage further West. The Prime Minister held the view that it should be possible to find a solution of out differences by an open exchange of views
When the Soviets liberated Germany they were able to get a huge cache of British diplomatic documents. The Soviets released the above book and Documents And Materials Relating To The Eve Of The Second World War Vol. 2 full to the brim of diplomats praising Nazi Germany as a twin pillar alongside Britain stopping communism.
NATO is a fascist organisation.
You Germs should know that since they incorporated plenty nazis in the organisation.
https://www.dispropaganda.com/single-post/2019/04/04/natos-secret-nazi-past
Don’t care, I’d rather live under the neolib European governments any day than a fascist Russian shithole. It’s not even a difficult choice. It’s not like there’s some leftist utopia as an alternative. The neolibs don’t murder gay people and don’t decriminalize violence against women as a state policy.
I’ve got some horrible news for you.
That’s the fascist Banderites you support.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/03/ukraine-activists-at-womens-solidarity-event-must-be-protected-from-attacks/
Don’t try to deflect, you’re fine with Russia murdering gay people.
Weak.
You’re deflecting when called out on your BS, prove your “Russia murdering gay people” lies
Isn’t Amnesty an evil neoliberal org? Or are you a weird kind of tankie that doesn’t really have issue with it?
Regardless of that, it’s just like saying “Palestine deserved it” because Hamas and radical Islam.
I’m not going to react, your nonsense from your response says enough.
I’ll take government failures to control their pigs over actually siccing the murder pigs on the protestors.
I’m sure you can post proof of the government murdering womens marches, let’s see it
aaaaaaand nothing 🤡
So did the warsaw packt and russia today even has them lead armys again. Your point?
While not fully denazifying west germany didnt hide their identities and they were out right critisised. Especially when a former office nazi got elected chanclor (Kurt Kissinger). He even got hit and boohed in public. Behind the iron curtain they outright hid the nazis. Hired SS and Gestapo for the Stasi (unlike the west).
I am comparing it because i know thats where you are going with your argument
While the Warhaw pact did have their own limited project paperclip it is a fact it was the west that fully incorporated the nazis into their regime.
The point being they both were anti-communist.
The west also helped escape 1000’s of the worst SS nazi warcriminals (ukranians) and relocated them to Canada.
What was their use?
There is zero equivalence and you can’t find more than some cherrypicked examples.
To the Russians some could be used but were their enemies, unlike the west where they had plenty of fascist sympathisers in Europe or N America.
https://ebeggin.substack.com/p/ratlines-nato-and-the-fourth-reich
“and russia today even has them lead armys again”
LOL is that your claim? Let me say it for you, Ill cherrypick Dimitry Utkin for you bcs because i know where you are going with your argument. A guy from a private militia who is in no way part of the Russian army, as events later made abundantly clear.
You can find individual nazis in almost every country.
Guess who those Russian nazis are fighting for?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/03/04/russian-neo-nazi-hooligan-who-led-anti-putin-militia-across/
Ukraine has multible openly fascist batalions like Azov, Sich, Tornado and plenty more.
Where WW2 warcriminals are honored, etc…
And let’s not forget how the west now whitewashes the horrible Navalny, who organised the Russian marches before they were forbidden, a racist making videos of him shooting muslims that he called cockroaches.
A disgusting criminal sold by the west as some brave hero fighting for democracy.
As riculous as saying Azov are totally not nazis anymore bcs they changed their logo.
If only Hitler would’ve done something to his swastika, he could’ve been a brave anti-commie fighter hero.
You haven’t got a leg to stand on.
Campists these days are so funny, because now they’re getting all their opinions from the US state department.
Ok Tankie.
shouldn’t you be beating up anti-genocide protesters while doing the Musk salute?
A tankie on .world? Funny
We’re having all the fun ridiculing all the fash and the lib enablers.
Good for you .world isn’t as restrictive as the tankie triade
Without meaning this as a defense of Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine: go check .world mod history, every other deleted comment is “Russian troll” or “disinformation” or equivalents. If you defend a policy of censoring points of view more charitative to Russia than western narratives be open about it, it’s fine, just be aware that you’re actually doing it
Putin suckers of every calibre, including “not everything is this clear cut” motherfuckers should be shut as diligently as nazis. Their “viewpoints” are harmful and should be censored.
What is fine about censorship and banning ‘unwanted’ news sources?
People aren’t allowed to make up their own mind?
I have posted plenty of facts that got removed bcs it didn’t fit the US narrative.
There is plenty to say on the violent US instigated coup of 2014 and the horrible war commited by the Banderite regime for 8 years.
Somehow the MSM didn’t care and even whitewashed them later.
Mentioning that is not ‘Russian propaganda’.
I don’t like Putin, compareds to the US he is by far the lesser evil.
People refuse to see the manufactured consent and almost totalitarian information control.
I wouldn’t know what that is.
And restrictive is a euphemism here in this circle jerk of manufactured consent and overcensoring
Without NATO, we’re going back into the age of territorial conquests and nationalist revenge campaigns. Russia and China aren’t the only countries where this crap is normalized (see Hungary - lot of my fellow Hungarians thinks Slovaks are just Hungarians forced to take up a Slavic language, and in reality they’re just a lost tribe of Magyars called “the Tóths”).
NATO is territorial conquest by the US.
Europe are just vasals.
Name one agressive expansion of territory by nato.
And no. The former occupied eastern europe countrys joining nato is not military expansion. They wanted to join and are still indipendent in everything they do
What do you consider 'expansion of territory '?
That is an outdated concept.
The US has used NATO to attack and control other countries without ‘expansion’. That would be to obvious colonialism. They “intervene” (mass murder and destroy the brow people countries) then install their puppet like in Afghanistan.
They use more sneaky regime change tactics in Europe.
Ukraine was a good example, with the Nuland-Pyatt call telling them who should be president. (And “fuck the EU” OC)
in Georgia they sure tried but failed.
They are ‘bodybags’ combined with NATO weapons as Soros said in '93 explaining how NATO could destroy Russia (so peaceful). And no, there is no context.
But if they have to they blatantly bomb cities and an embassy like Yugoslavia.
The US blew up our Nordstream pipeline forcing us to buy their expensive gas and destroying our economy.
Not one peep from our bootlicking EU leaders.
That sure sounds like we’re independent.
And now the poodles complain they don’t get respect? LOL
NATO is liberal and that comes with all of the problems of liberals but in what ways has it functioned as a fascist organisation?
https://www.yanisvaroufakis.eu/2024/01/12/nato-as-seen-from-one-who-grew-up-under-us-sponsored-neofascism-unherd/
This is another example of Schrödinger’s NATO, where actions perpetrated by the USA is blamed on the entire organisation, yet NATO is a symbol of Western imperialism.
Which is it? If all of NATO but the USA want one thing, and the USA overthrows your government, is it NATO’s fault or rather the USA’s? Are tankies blaming Iraq on NATO too?
" if all of NATO but the USA want one thing"
What are you talking about.
NATO IS the USA, they decide and nobody else.
The vasals will pay for it, provide assistance and get to take care of the millions of refugees caused by it while the US plunders the poor victim of the day’s oil and resources.
If you don’t get that then it’s hopeless.
If that were so all of NATO would have joined and supported the gulf wars and Afghanistan, which didnt happen. If that were also the case, the USA and Soviet empire wouldnt have stood against britain and france (both NATO members) in the suez crisis
Plenty of NATO countries supported and joined in those wars.
Had to protect the surplus profits of Capitalism at all costs. A century of wealth needed to be consolidated in the hands of the ubermensch. You know, Mohammed Bin Salmen and Amancio Ortega and Elon Musk.