Joe Biden will not be the Democratic nominee in Novemberā€™s presidential election, thankfully. He is not withdrawing because heā€™s being held responsible for enabling war crimes against the Palestinian people (though a recent poll does have nearly 40 percent of Americans saying theyā€™re less likely to vote for him thanks to his handling of the war). Yet itā€™s impossible to extricate the collapse in public faith in the Biden campaign from the ā€œuncommittedā€ movement for Gaza. They were the first people to refuse him their votes, and defections from within the presidentā€™s base hollowed out his support well in advance of the debate.

The Democrats and their presumptive nominee Kamala Harris are faced with a choice: On the one hand, they can continue Bidenā€™s monstrous support for Netanyahu, the brutal IDF, and Israelā€™s genocide of Palestinians. That would help allow the party to cover for Biden and put a positive spin on a smooth handoff, even though we all know this would mainly benefit the embittered president himself and his small coterie of loyalists. Such a choice would confirm that the institutional rot that allowed the current situation to develop still characterizes the party.

  • subversive_dev@lemmy.ml
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    4 months ago

    I certainly donā€™t grant ā€œIsrael has a right to existā€ from the jump. What right? From whom? For the record, I donā€™t think the settlers in the United States have any right over stolen native lands.

    I donā€™t grant that the dissolution of a colonialist theocracy state is the same thing as a genocide. States are not peoples. Decolonization is not genocide.

    • Timii@biglemmowski.win
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      4 months ago

      One of the elements of genocide per the ICC: The perpetrator intended to destroy, in whole or in part, that national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such.

      • subversive_dev@lemmy.ml
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        4 months ago

        Again, this is an essential distinction. States are not peoples. A national group is the people of a state, not the state itself.

        The axis states ceased to exist after world war II. Despite gratuitous bombing by allied forces, the peoples of the states continue to exist, and largely inhabit the same territory.

        Seemingly by your argument, land can be seized, people expelled, war crimes committed, but if you have created a state, it would be inherently wrong to dislodge you. I personally donā€™t regard states as a magic blanket that rules out decolonization by definition.

        • Timii@biglemmowski.win
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          4 months ago

          Um, the axis states all continued to exist. They just had a regime change. That is not what Hamas wants.

          Iā€™m sorry, but the definition is clear and it encapsulates Hamasā€™ goals entirely.

          • subversive_dev@lemmy.ml
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            4 months ago

            Now it seems weā€™ve reached a ā€œverbal argumentā€ where itā€™s just an argument over definitions, which Iā€™m not interested in.

            This is where Iā€™m personally going to leave this:

            Some people see the 70 -year genocide of the Palestinians as an unspeakable atrocity that plainly justifies violent and non-violent resistance.

            Some people want to center the fears of the occupiers in the discussion, and use that to throw up their hands and shut down any action or solution that isnā€™t on the occupiersā€™ terms.

            • Timii@biglemmowski.win
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              4 months ago

              Itā€™s not ā€˜fearsā€™. Itā€™s 80 years of constant assault with intent to annihilate. The issue isnā€™t semantics. Itā€™s your refusal to acknowledge the fact that Israel arenā€™t exactly fighting angels here. Both sides are fighting an existential war. You just think the wrong side is winning and the UN mandate which created Israel, giving it a right to exist, says otherwise.

              • subversive_dev@lemmy.ml
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                4 months ago

                assault with intent to annihilate

                So weā€™re just making up serious sounding phrases to try and balance the scales? Which side is bulldozing houses and stealing land? Which side is practicing brutal apartheid? Which side FUCKING BOMBS SCHOOLS AND HOSPITALS?

                Jesus fucking Christ get outside of your media bubble every once in awhile.

                I suspect that you canā€™t because you have built a comfortable occupier existence for yourself, so you canā€™t look at the pile of bodies forming the foundation of your existence.

                • Timii@biglemmowski.win
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                  4 months ago

                  Iā€™m not justifying anything. Iā€™m explaining reality. It doesnā€™t matter who is when both sides would if they could. All radical islamists need to do to overcome this critical detail is to stop with the wanting to destroy Israel. Itā€™s that simple. If all Imams proclaimed Israel had a right to exist and Hamas, etc all swore to lay down their arms and obey the edict I would sign up for the UN peacekeeping forces to go arrest all war criminals and force a 2 state solution myself.

                  • subversive_dev@lemmy.ml
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                    4 months ago

                    I donā€™t really give a shit if resistance fighters check all the right civility boxes. The occupiers were already given most of the land in 1949, but that just wasnā€™t enough. Fuck genocidal setters. Fuck false equivalence. Fuck apartheid. The PLO has played the civility game all these years, how has that worked out for them? Israel is an evil and corrupt society (the US is too).