Some Republicans have been defensive that the party has a strong anti-democratic bent. But the state GOP convention embraced it, writes columnist Danny Westneat.
CableMonster is a conservative, not a “tankie.” “Tankies” want democracy, usually a different form like Soviet Democracy, they don’t rattle on about Constitutional Republics or anything.
I want a democracy where normal people are the demos getting represented, rather than rich shitheads, their kids, and their family business killing the planet.
It’s called a dictatorship of the proletariat when the wealthy minority do not be getting to enforce their will on the majority.
It’s called a dictatorship of the proletariat when the wealthy minority do not be getting to enforce their will on the majority.
It’s just a personal dictatorship of one man. Stalin had arrest quotas so his men rounded up people at random at train stations and markets to fulfil his quota. Sucked for the proletariat just trying to buy bread or visit grandma.
According to declassified documents from the CIA itself:
Even in Stalin’s time there was collective leadership. The Western idea of a dictator within the Communist setup is exaggerated. Misunderstandings on that subject are caused by lack of comprehension of the real nature and organization of the Communist power structure.
Stalin, although holding wide powers, was merely the captain of a team and it seems obvious that Khrushchev will be the new captain. However it does not appear that any of the present leaders will rise to the stature of Lenin and Stalin, so that it will be safer to assume that developments in Moscow will be along the lines of what is called collective leadership, unless Western policies force the soviets to streamline their power organization.
It is hard to draw any parallel between present events and those of the 1920’s when stalin was ascending to power. There is now no organized opposition iniside the Party, or in the Soviet Union in general. As the Communist rulers and evidently also the Soviet people see it, there is a grave outside menace.
Dictatorship does not mean autocracy. The point of a dictatorship of a proletariat is that unlike what we have now (a dictatorship of the bourgeoise) is that it’s reflecting the will of the majority of working people over the wants of our aristocracy.
Yeah I dont get it, I want you to do what you want and me to do what I want, and figure out a way to work together. They just want to tell us what to do, crazy when it ends in disaster.
Yes, and they should hate democracy. How do you not understand that democracy is bad? See lynch mob example
What I hate instead is the neofascist movement that is trying to capture America and implement a vast enshitification program. How do you not understand that neofascism is bad? See example of many millions killed and tortured in huge enshitification program in 1930’s Germany leading to global war killing tens of millions.
Sure dude, that is exactly what the conversation is about!
It sure is. The fascist takeover of Germany and terrifying consequences is real and your “lynch mob” example making democracy the “worst form of government” is not real. Lynch mobs have never been legal in democracies. But they are common in just about every authoritarian country.
What’s utterly crazy is you trying to tell people that Treason Trump’s neofascist movement would be better at protecting minority rights than our longstanding core values of democracy and the rule of law.
I agree that suggesting Trump is silly, but America’s “core value of democracy” is excessively hollow, and largely for show. In reality, wealthy Capitalists have always been served by the state and remain in power since America’s conception, this has never been untrue in America.
Successful by what metric? Settler-colonialism and genocide? Sure, given that America was founded by Slave Owners that makes sense. Successful in terms of global Imperialism? Sure, given that America’s Capitalists have enjoyed cheap labor abroad through couping countries that denied them access to their natural resources and labor, that makes sense too.
Successful in terms of representing the general public? No, not even close.
Switzerland has a direct democracy component to their government.
The pure form of direct democracy exists only in the Swiss cantons of Appenzell Innerrhoden and Glarus.[27] The Swiss Confederation is a semi-direct democracy (representative democracy with strong instruments of direct democracy).[27] The nature of direct democracy in Switzerland is fundamentally complemented by its federal governmental structures (in German also called the Subsidiaritätsprinzip).[5][6][7][8]
Most western countries have representative systems.[27] Switzerland is a rare example of a country with instruments of direct democracy (at the levels of the municipalities, cantons, and federal state). Citizens have more power than in a representative democracy. On any political level citizens can propose changes to the constitution (popular initiative) or ask for an optional referendum to be held on any law voted by the federal, cantonal parliament and/or municipal legislative body.[28]
The list for mandatory or optional referendums on each political level are generally much longer in Switzerland than in any other country; for example, any amendment to the constitution must automatically be voted on by the Swiss electorate and cantons, on cantonal/communal levels often any financial decision of a certain substantial amount decreed by legislative and/or executive bodies as well.[28]
Swiss citizens vote regularly on any kind of issue on every political level, such as financial approvals of a schoolhouse or the building of a new street, or the change of the policy regarding sexual work, or on constitutional changes, or on the foreign policy of Switzerland, four times a year.[29] Between January 1995 and June 2005, Swiss citizens voted 31 times, on 103 federal questions besides many more cantonal and municipal questions.[30] During the same period, French citizens participated in only two referendums.[27]
In Switzerland, simple majorities are sufficient at the municipal and cantonal level, at the federal level double majorities are required on constitutional issues.[20]
A double majority requires approval by a majority of individuals voting, and also by a majority of cantons. Thus, in Switzerland, a citizen-proposed amendment to the federal constitution (i.e. popular initiative) cannot be passed at the federal level if a majority of the people approve but a majority of the cantons disapprove.[20] For referendums or propositions in general terms (like the principle of a general revision of the Constitution), a majority of those voting is sufficient (Swiss Constitution, 2005).
Using the most extreme example of a political system as a bad example is just plain fucking stupid. What system do you propose? I’m positive that I can find an example of that being a nightmare with virtually no effort.
They want a Republic™. Which is just a thin veneer over a pseudo religious fascist oligarchy! Like fucking Russia.
Anyone who wants to take away your right to self determination is a lunatic.
And this is just crazy because we don’t live in a democracy. We don’t live in a republic. We live in a democratic republic. Where we each get a say in who’s elected. And anyone saying otherwise wants to see our nation fall to fascist rule.
America may be a democracy, though the founding document restricted that demos to white landowners. That hasn’t changed much in practice but yeah go off saying Russia is somehow worse.
North Korea is a constitutional republic. And Iran. And China. And Russia. And Nazi Germany was. That means nothing. It’s just another GOP dog whistle.
Yes they are so. Anybody who thinks the Shah is in power in Iran, the Tsar rules Russia, the Emperor still rules China, and the Kaiser still runs Germany, is not paying attention to current events.
And looking at the worst case scenerio of a political system is exactly what you should do
That’s a strawman version of my words and you know it. A lynch mob is not actually a valid example of a democracy without simplifying literally every part of it, in the same way that a death cult shouldn’t be considered a valid simplification of communism.
A lynch mob is an exaggerated example but it is a perfect analogy. Its more like “democracy is when minorities are legally discriminated against and abused.”
Sure a constitution could be bad, but its the best political document that can last the longest period of time. You could make a constitution that is bad but then the smaller units of the government should not agree.
Yes we need smart people everywhere not just in politics. Be it doctors, accountants, engineers, clerks, elctricians and everywhere else. So when it comes writing the constitution, how do you select these smart people?
So your answer is you don’t know you’d just accept and believe what the “smart people” tell you?
So who changes the constitution? Same smart people who wrote the bad constitution? Do you need a new set of smart people? If so how do you select these new people?
Have you given any serious thought to what you’re advocatong for?
The most famous saying about democracy actually goes likes this…
Churchill: Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…
Yes, and they should hate democracy. How do you not understand that democracy is bad? See lynch mob example.
When people told me that Lemmy.ml is full of tankies, I thought they were exaggerating! GOD DAMN!!!
CableMonster is a conservative, not a “tankie.” “Tankies” want democracy, usually a different form like Soviet Democracy, they don’t rattle on about Constitutional Republics or anything.
I want a democracy where normal people are the demos getting represented, rather than rich shitheads, their kids, and their family business killing the planet.
It’s called a dictatorship of the proletariat when the wealthy minority do not be getting to enforce their will on the majority.
It’s just a personal dictatorship of one man. Stalin had arrest quotas so his men rounded up people at random at train stations and markets to fulfil his quota. Sucked for the proletariat just trying to buy bread or visit grandma.
According to declassified documents from the CIA itself:
Dictatorship does not mean autocracy. The point of a dictatorship of a proletariat is that unlike what we have now (a dictatorship of the bourgeoise) is that it’s reflecting the will of the majority of working people over the wants of our aristocracy.
Yep, we currently have the Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie, not a truly democratic system by any stretch.
I think this guy is a actually a bootlicker rather than a tankie. Ironic how they sound the same.
Yeah I dont get it, I want you to do what you want and me to do what I want, and figure out a way to work together. They just want to tell us what to do, crazy when it ends in disaster.
i mean, the USA is a constitutional republic, so this dweeb isn’t even being a tankie, they just have terminal facebook boomer meme brain
What I hate instead is the neofascist movement that is trying to capture America and implement a vast enshitification program. How do you not understand that neofascism is bad? See example of many millions killed and tortured in huge enshitification program in 1930’s Germany leading to global war killing tens of millions.
And in comes the tin foil hat guy! Sure dude, that is exactly what the conversation is about!
Ok dude who says democracy is bad calls somebody else a tin foil hat guy.
You should reflect on yourself first.
What do you think democracy is?
It sure is. The fascist takeover of Germany and terrifying consequences is real and your “lynch mob” example making democracy the “worst form of government” is not real. Lynch mobs have never been legal in democracies. But they are common in just about every authoritarian country.
No, you guys have just gotten crazy and believe the propaganda.
What’s utterly crazy is you trying to tell people that Treason Trump’s neofascist movement would be better at protecting minority rights than our longstanding core values of democracy and the rule of law.
I agree that suggesting Trump is silly, but America’s “core value of democracy” is excessively hollow, and largely for show. In reality, wealthy Capitalists have always been served by the state and remain in power since America’s conception, this has never been untrue in America.
And yet it made America the must successful country in the world.
Successful by what metric? Settler-colonialism and genocide? Sure, given that America was founded by Slave Owners that makes sense. Successful in terms of global Imperialism? Sure, given that America’s Capitalists have enjoyed cheap labor abroad through couping countries that denied them access to their natural resources and labor, that makes sense too.
Successful in terms of representing the general public? No, not even close.
Switzerland has a direct democracy component to their government.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracy#Switzerland
The US has direct democracies in many ways also, but there are overall protections from the constitution.
Using the most extreme example of a political system as a bad example is just plain fucking stupid. What system do you propose? I’m positive that I can find an example of that being a nightmare with virtually no effort.
They want a Republic™. Which is just a thin veneer over a pseudo religious fascist oligarchy! Like fucking Russia.
Anyone who wants to take away your right to self determination is a lunatic.
And this is just crazy because we don’t live in a democracy. We don’t live in a republic. We live in a democratic republic. Where we each get a say in who’s elected. And anyone saying otherwise wants to see our nation fall to fascist rule.
America may be a democracy, though the founding document restricted that demos to white landowners. That hasn’t changed much in practice but yeah go off saying Russia is somehow worse.
We don’t push political opponents off buildings and kill them in prisons and plane accidents and poisonings over here Ivan.
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2022/02/24/world/CN-24ukraine-briefing-Russianprotestssub-copy/24ukraine-briefing-Russianprotestssub-videoSixteenByNine3000.jpg
Unless they work for Boeing.
How about a constitutional republic?
And looking at the worst case scenerio of a political system is exactly what you should do
North Korea is a constitutional republic. And Iran. And China. And Russia. And Nazi Germany was. That means nothing. It’s just another GOP dog whistle.
No they are not.
Yes they are so. Anybody who thinks the Shah is in power in Iran, the Tsar rules Russia, the Emperor still rules China, and the Kaiser still runs Germany, is not paying attention to current events.
That’s a strawman version of my words and you know it. A lynch mob is not actually a valid example of a democracy without simplifying literally every part of it, in the same way that a death cult shouldn’t be considered a valid simplification of communism.
A lynch mob is an exaggerated example but it is a perfect analogy. Its more like “democracy is when minorities are legally discriminated against and abused.”
Sure a constitution could be bad, but its the best political document that can last the longest period of time. You could make a constitution that is bad but then the smaller units of the government should not agree.
I didn’t ask a hypothetical question. Do you have the answer for those 3 questions?
Those questions are too open ended to answer. If we narrow it down to america then;
Smart respected people that have studied history and politics.
You cant know for sure, but it is the best system possible for what is available.
It can go bad, and if it does then you need to change it, which the ability to do that helps to make it a good constitution.
You gave me non answers.
Have you given any serious thought to what you’re advocatong for?
You are asking me to write a book long response in a post. I am just advocating for what america had before the system got looted.
The US has a constitution that is bad (slavery is legal). That’s also why it was amended many times. Via a democratic process by the way.
Other democraties also have constitutions which they amend and revise regularly to expand rights and guide legislation.
I love it, you dont even know why slavery was not prohibited in the constitution. Before you comment you should learn basic history.
You don’t even know the difference between a republic and a democracy. Why do you think you know anything better?
Nobody ever said a democracy is the perfect system, but it’s better than non democratic forms of government.
What do you think would be a good system?
Democracy is a terrible system, as teh saying goes “democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what is for dinner.”
The most famous saying about democracy actually goes likes this…
Churchill: Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…
Monarchy is a better system than straight democracy. See above quote.
You miss King George III and your hatred of American values just caused you to wildly swing from republic to monarchy. Got it.
The quote from a British prime minister that says monarchy is worse than democracy?
Sure you can have bad monarchies, but its much more likely you will have bad pure democracies.
You will want to gtfo and move to Saudi Arabia then. Hope you’re not female.