Really? You really think that? I know that plenty of Jewish outside of Israel don’t support the current genocide of Palestinians, and I know plenty do.
Log the fuck out, go outside, and meet some people. A lot of us grew up raised by holocaust survivors and we have very strong opinions that Israel’s genocide against the people of Palestine is truly and wholly horrible.
You’re evading. I didn’t ask if they were. I asked if you expected it. Do you? Or are only Jews expected to denounce genocide every time they face bigotry in your view?
People generally do not think about a population with statistical terms. Humans are tribalist and much prefer binary thinking and always have. Linguists say that is not going to change and will get worse. I hear that our embrace of stats in the later 1900s was an aberation in the arc of historical rhetoric.
So the question becomes, when does a random fellow human feel its right to make generalizations?
when its 50% +1 (aka “more right than wrong”)
99%?
99.999%
or only at 100%?
Given, its a sliding scale dependent on the harm being done by making the assumption. If this decision kills someone, people generally will not make an assumption unless they are in an incited mob. If it will irritate or unfairly characterize you, nobody cares, and they will feel free to assume.
surety at 100% is obviously the ideal answer, but humans will never approach that because its too much work. We dont care about the uniqueness of individuals who self identify into a group. Most people tend much more toward 50%+1 than 100% in their thinking. As an example, I’m sure there were some (maybe not many) actually good people in the german nazi party. Maybe they werent aware of the murders, or their kid was a soldier, or whatever. Ever heard anyone talk about being careful not to malign them? And no, I am not suggesting we sympathize with nazis. This is part of the problem judges had to wrestle with after ww2: “not evil nazis”
Theres also the problem of crypto nazis as well. People who are secretly in favor of genocide but wont admit it outright. Humans lie, we all know this, so embracing someone on their word is not a successful strategy. We have to watch their actions instead. And we get tired of looking earnestly for outliers. Sorry, its not fair, but as far as I can tell its how humanity works, broadly speaking. Additionally, people do recognize that a lot of manipulation and marketing shenanigans has been going on around the Palestinian genocide. Yes, we are stupid, but we are just smart enough to see how ham-fisted that effort was. Thats not even going into what happened in the last election.
And theres the problem of aggregation. Sure any one member of a group stands a 15% chance of being against the genocide, but when 3 people get together, whats the odds that they are all against genocide? It drops from 15% per person to 3 tenths of one percent for a group of 3 all being members of that minority. This assumes uniform distribution of that viewpoint across a defined population.
No. I don’t expect any decent behavior from anyone, but the United States administration should apologize for creating conditions that caused it, and fix it. And these circumstances are actively different, and I will try to be more sensitive. I don’t expect you to self reflect, since several people have called your words/reactions out in various threads, but that’s no reason I shouldn’t.
They didn’t deny the genocide, but asked why that’s relevant. Jewish people are separate from Israel, even though Israel wants to muddy the waters. It’s like blaming all of Christianity for the holocaust because hitler wanted to put a Christian veneer on it.
We blame every Christian for the crushed, crusades so I hardly see a difference. I painted with words that would have been understood by Christians and he’s in my rl community, forgetting that I’m on a world platform where my meaning may be misunderstood, and I’m sorry for that. We just know each other well here and even though we sometimes disagree, we don’t always take it personally. I need to be more considerate.
We do? Speak for yourself. I don’t know anyone who blames a single living Christian for anything that happened hundreds of years ago, mostly because I don’t associate with bigots and that’s a bigoted view, like the ones you’re displaying.
Right, it’s not a genocide, they’re simply killing everyone that is living in a specific region. In fact, between the dead there aren’t exclusively Palestinians, but also some aid workers, volunteers from western countries and sometimes even their own kidnapped citizens. So it is not strictly a dictionary definition of genocide, rather a “mass murdering of the population”.
In fact, I don’t see why they’re paying billions to Google to place AI on weapons when the algorithms seems to be like “hospital = target” and “if it moves = target”
Possibly. Difficult to say these days, Israeli apologists are often crossing the line of total ridiculousness trying to justify murdering civilians so I may be overreacting.
It would mean more if Israel weren’t actively genociding Palestinians.
Oh look, someone who thinks that “Jew” and “Israeli” are synonyms.
As always, no matter where I live, no matter how much I say I hate Israel, I will always be a foreigner and a Zionist.
Really? You really think that? I know that plenty of Jewish outside of Israel don’t support the current genocide of Palestinians, and I know plenty do.
Good job interpreting @FlyingSquid@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world’s comment the literal exact opposite way of what it meant.
I think you sure as fuck implied it, when you said:
Why would it mean more unless Jew and Israeli were synonyms?
Are they likewise condemning the genocide?
Y E S
Log the fuck out, go outside, and meet some people. A lot of us grew up raised by holocaust survivors and we have very strong opinions that Israel’s genocide against the people of Palestine is truly and wholly horrible.
Ah, I see, so it isn’t “Jew = Israeli,” it’s “Jew = Pro genocide.” Totally different.
Do you also expect every Muslim to denounce ISIS every time they face bigotry themselves? I bet you don’t.
Da’esh. They surely were, when da’esh was in the news.
You’re evading. I didn’t ask if they were. I asked if you expected it. Do you? Or are only Jews expected to denounce genocide every time they face bigotry in your view?
@flying squid, part of the problem: “85% of American Jewish adults believe it is important for the U.S. to support Israel”
https://www.ajc.org/news/ajc-survey-shows-american-jews-are-deeply-and-increasingly-connected-to-israel
People generally do not think about a population with statistical terms. Humans are tribalist and much prefer binary thinking and always have. Linguists say that is not going to change and will get worse. I hear that our embrace of stats in the later 1900s was an aberation in the arc of historical rhetoric.
So the question becomes, when does a random fellow human feel its right to make generalizations?
when its 50% +1 (aka “more right than wrong”) 99%? 99.999% or only at 100%?
Given, its a sliding scale dependent on the harm being done by making the assumption. If this decision kills someone, people generally will not make an assumption unless they are in an incited mob. If it will irritate or unfairly characterize you, nobody cares, and they will feel free to assume.
surety at 100% is obviously the ideal answer, but humans will never approach that because its too much work. We dont care about the uniqueness of individuals who self identify into a group. Most people tend much more toward 50%+1 than 100% in their thinking. As an example, I’m sure there were some (maybe not many) actually good people in the german nazi party. Maybe they werent aware of the murders, or their kid was a soldier, or whatever. Ever heard anyone talk about being careful not to malign them? And no, I am not suggesting we sympathize with nazis. This is part of the problem judges had to wrestle with after ww2: “not evil nazis”
Theres also the problem of crypto nazis as well. People who are secretly in favor of genocide but wont admit it outright. Humans lie, we all know this, so embracing someone on their word is not a successful strategy. We have to watch their actions instead. And we get tired of looking earnestly for outliers. Sorry, its not fair, but as far as I can tell its how humanity works, broadly speaking. Additionally, people do recognize that a lot of manipulation and marketing shenanigans has been going on around the Palestinian genocide. Yes, we are stupid, but we are just smart enough to see how ham-fisted that effort was. Thats not even going into what happened in the last election.
And theres the problem of aggregation. Sure any one member of a group stands a 15% chance of being against the genocide, but when 3 people get together, whats the odds that they are all against genocide? It drops from 15% per person to 3 tenths of one percent for a group of 3 all being members of that minority. This assumes uniform distribution of that viewpoint across a defined population.
No. I don’t expect any decent behavior from anyone, but the United States administration should apologize for creating conditions that caused it, and fix it. And these circumstances are actively different, and I will try to be more sensitive. I don’t expect you to self reflect, since several people have called your words/reactions out in various threads, but that’s no reason I shouldn’t.
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What does that have to do with this?
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They didn’t deny the genocide, but asked why that’s relevant. Jewish people are separate from Israel, even though Israel wants to muddy the waters. It’s like blaming all of Christianity for the holocaust because hitler wanted to put a Christian veneer on it.
The ADL does deny the Palestinian genocide. Fuck the ADL.
This is an article about Jewish leaders, not about the ADL. The ADL purports to speak in the defense of all Jews and Judaism, but they do not.
We blame every Christian for the
crushed, crusades so I hardly see a difference. I painted with words that would have been understood by Christians and he’s in my rl community, forgetting that I’m on a world platform where my meaning may be misunderstood, and I’m sorry for that. We just know each other well here and even though we sometimes disagree, we don’t always take it personally. I need to be more considerate.We do? Speak for yourself. I don’t know anyone who blames a single living Christian for anything that happened hundreds of years ago, mostly because I don’t associate with bigots and that’s a bigoted view, like the ones you’re displaying.
I’m Jewish. I do not support Israel and I never have. The ADL does not speak for me.
But I’m going to guess you’ll call that typical Jewish lies.
Right, it’s not a genocide, they’re simply killing everyone that is living in a specific region. In fact, between the dead there aren’t exclusively Palestinians, but also some aid workers, volunteers from western countries and sometimes even their own kidnapped citizens. So it is not strictly a dictionary definition of genocide, rather a “mass murdering of the population”.
In fact, I don’t see why they’re paying billions to Google to place AI on weapons when the algorithms seems to be like “hospital = target” and “if it moves = target”
there’s a word for that. it’s called “genocide”
Stop talking rubbish. Israel is actively performing a genocide of Palestinians, other people are just a collateral damage.
They know that, I guarantee it. They just wanted to mention the others who’ve been murdered.
He just literally said it wasn’t a genocide?
It’s sarcasm.
Possibly. Difficult to say these days, Israeli apologists are often crossing the line of total ridiculousness trying to justify murdering civilians so I may be overreacting.
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