It is obviously cosmetic as it relates to appearance. That can still be a serious issue but then you go on to dismiss dental care.
Someone with damaged teeth would disagree with you because of appearance, health, social and mental impact of living with and having to hide damaged teeth.
Arguing trans healthcare should always come first because you prefer it in your situation is a shit argument.
You’re saying the majority of people to put trans healthcare at the bottom of the list of priorities because it doesn’t affect them.
Besides this isn’t an ‘us’ vs ‘them’ issue. There was zero reason to make that argument.
its not cosmetic, its reconstructive. i dont give a fuck what some fascistic cis people think is ‘cosmetic’ or not, the term is mostly just used by insurance companies and governments to weasel out of paying out to medically necessary interventions.
I am happy to be corrected about whether specific surgeries are considered cosmetic or not but I do not, as a rule, take the comments of random people on the internet as gospel.
what some fascistic cis people
Do you have something against the Mayo clinic?
Not that I need to explain to you but I commented because I saw a misguided comment and was hoping to have an open discussion about how healthcare should always be available to those who need it.
It is fucked that both teeth and ffs are arbitrarily gate kept in order to balance the books in a deeply disfunctuonal healthcare system. It should obviously all be free at the point of care. And the only reason it isn’t is to deny care to poor people.
What’s obnoxious are the cises showing up (in other comments) to be like " um actually if you look up the medical authorities in the fascist country America people say it’s cosmetic". 🤓
It’s no probs, there’s a lot of trans ppl being downvoted in here for their 100% correct takes, so ppl speaking out of turn are getting lots of reports.
Yeah I agree with that, and people need their argument dopamine hit so things are gonna by defualt get unruly pretty quick.
I think the only thing I disagree with is making it too much of an us vs them situation, as hard as that is when it feels like they’re doing the same, but hey maybe I was just born out of hippie times and am feeling the pain lmao - they had some shit going on when they disagreed with labels being overly general in my opinion
I agree, some people are just argumentative, there’s a time and a place.
I take the criticism about making this too us vs them, but part of the reason for the reaction was not about dividing people but pushing back on bad behavior. Anyone who views themselves as a cis ‘ally’ who finds themselves in the situation of trying to ‘prove their point’ to a bunch of trans people in a trans space really needs to self-crit and step back.
Cosmetic surgery relates to appearance. Transition related surgeries relate to dysphoria
Someone with damaged teeth would disagree with you because of appearance, health, social and mental impact of living with and having to hide damaged teeth.
Both my partner and myself both have damaged teeth. It’s nothing like that
Arguing trans healthcare should always come first because you prefer it in your situation is a shit argument.
I don’t need it. I was fortunate enough to be able to self fund my own surgeries. But doing so has had long lasting effects on my financial security.
Notably, I didn’t spend that money on teeth or any other cosmetic issues, because it’s not even remotely the same. Spending my future to make my teeth look better would be a poor choice.
Spending my future to deal with my dysphoria was what I had to do to ensure that I had a future.
A type 1 diabetic with ruined teeth would likely disagree with you on priorities.
Having a mouth full of rotting teeth is painful, unattractive and can cause severe distress and social isolation, even depression.
It can also contribute to other severe medical problems such as a massively increased risk of heart attack.
You are putting your own struggles first and foremost while dismissing the pain and sufferring of others.
I am saying neither people with dental problems or trans people should be denied healthcare, you are saying
my problems are more important so only my problems should be dealt with
I am disagreeing with your argument because it dismisses a genuine and serious form of medical care that should be afforded to all who need it.
Trans surgeries are not “cosmetic”.
The Mayo clinic, which is a respected source, disagrees with you on at least one of the surgeries being sought.
Speaking as a trans person,
Your experience is valid.
access to trans healthcare is far more important to me than dental healthcare.
And you shouldn’t dismiss the experiences and needs of others.
how many brain cells do you have? 2? 3? she said her partner has fucked teeth. they consider FFS more important. does that mean they dont want their fucked teeth fixed? NO. jesus fuck, get out of here you cis garbage
I am not going to debate shit with cis in the transgender comm.
Universal classifications of procedures are a tool for denying care inside a fucked up healthcare system, we all agree that our healthcare system is fucked. Nobody is saying that dental care shouldn’t also be a priority and it’s insulting having cis dumbasses roll up to try to be like "um aktually I’m simply citing sources at you "
Since you’re citing a US source, the medical system here is set up by insurance companies to deny care by classifying things as requiring specific diagnosis and all that does is restrict access to everyone and artificially drive up costs to benefit the profiteers. It’s also often structured to be incredibly harmful to poor people who need the care that’s being denied.
No offence but comments like this are only harmful to our community, and I know saying this might not change your mind on anything, but I’d feel wrong if I didn’t ask.
Don’t try to speak for all of us, I know many of us have been treated horribly for years simply because who we are, and as fucked as that is it doesn’t make it ok to put your trauma above others, in a way that may be affected by your personal bias.
The queer community has always been about outsiders, arguably even more so than simply about sex or gender, and in that vein I couldnt go to bed comfortably if I could gaurentee ffs to some of our sisters while leaving millions in constant physical pain, just like I feel looking in the mirror every day.
This is class warfare, not bum fights in an alleyway - cause we all know the upper class has rock solid solidarity, and we don’t stand a chance until we do as well.
Where did they take it to an individual sense? You’re being a “pickme” and arguing for respectability politics. I vehemently disagree that trans people need to make ourselves and our rights palatable to non-queer folks.
Trans surgeries are not “cosmetic”.
Speaking as a trans person, access to trans healthcare is far more important to me than dental healthcare.
It is obviously cosmetic as it relates to appearance. That can still be a serious issue but then you go on to dismiss dental care.
Someone with damaged teeth would disagree with you because of appearance, health, social and mental impact of living with and having to hide damaged teeth.
Arguing trans healthcare should always come first because you prefer it in your situation is a shit argument.
You’re saying the majority of people to put trans healthcare at the bottom of the list of priorities because it doesn’t affect them.
Besides this isn’t an ‘us’ vs ‘them’ issue. There was zero reason to make that argument.
Edit: I even fact checked myself on my ‘obviously cosmetic’ claim. Mayo clinic: https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/what-is-tracheal-shave
its not cosmetic, its reconstructive. i dont give a fuck what some fascistic cis people think is ‘cosmetic’ or not, the term is mostly just used by insurance companies and governments to weasel out of paying out to medically necessary interventions.
why the fuck are you in this comm? leave.
Would you be willing to be a mod of this comm?
yes
Done.
i’m going to make stalin look like a liberal 🫡
o7
I am happy to be corrected about whether specific surgeries are considered cosmetic or not but I do not, as a rule, take the comments of random people on the internet as gospel.
Do you have something against the Mayo clinic?
Not that I need to explain to you but I commented because I saw a misguided comment and was hoping to have an open discussion about how healthcare should always be available to those who need it.
I’ll be here all week. :)
Wow with “allies” like you who needs enemies
yes
fuck off cissie
I’m a trans commie and think dysphoria is generally cosmetic, and think its fucked both teeth and ffs aren’t covered.
But I guess I just don’t like punching down
It is fucked that both teeth and ffs are arbitrarily gate kept in order to balance the books in a deeply disfunctuonal healthcare system. It should obviously all be free at the point of care. And the only reason it isn’t is to deny care to poor people.
What’s obnoxious are the cises showing up (in other comments) to be like " um actually if you look up the medical authorities in the fascist country America people say it’s cosmetic". 🤓
Would you be willing to help mod this comm?
Mad respect you came to a thread as controversial as this to look for mods
It’s no probs, there’s a lot of trans ppl being downvoted in here for their 100% correct takes, so ppl speaking out of turn are getting lots of reports.
Yeah especially in a trans community of feels at best… Icky
Absolutely.
Done, thanks.
I will do my best! Thank you!
Yeah I agree with that, and people need their argument dopamine hit so things are gonna by defualt get unruly pretty quick.
I think the only thing I disagree with is making it too much of an us vs them situation, as hard as that is when it feels like they’re doing the same, but hey maybe I was just born out of hippie times and am feeling the pain lmao - they had some shit going on when they disagreed with labels being overly general in my opinion
I agree, some people are just argumentative, there’s a time and a place.
I take the criticism about making this too us vs them, but part of the reason for the reaction was not about dividing people but pushing back on bad behavior. Anyone who views themselves as a cis ‘ally’ who finds themselves in the situation of trying to ‘prove their point’ to a bunch of trans people in a trans space really needs to self-crit and step back.
not once did i say teeth shouldnt be covered.
Nor did I say you did <3
Cosmetic surgery relates to appearance. Transition related surgeries relate to dysphoria
Both my partner and myself both have damaged teeth. It’s nothing like that
I don’t need it. I was fortunate enough to be able to self fund my own surgeries. But doing so has had long lasting effects on my financial security.
Notably, I didn’t spend that money on teeth or any other cosmetic issues, because it’s not even remotely the same. Spending my future to make my teeth look better would be a poor choice.
Spending my future to deal with my dysphoria was what I had to do to ensure that I had a future.
You’re not getting it.
In a discussion about healthcare and insurance coverage this should not be one or the other.
Yeah, the trans person, talking about first hand experiences navigating this exact topic is the one who doesn’t get it…
A type 1 diabetic with ruined teeth would likely disagree with you on priorities. Having a mouth full of rotting teeth is painful, unattractive and can cause severe distress and social isolation, even depression.
It can also contribute to other severe medical problems such as a massively increased risk of heart attack.
You are putting your own struggles first and foremost while dismissing the pain and sufferring of others. I am saying neither people with dental problems or trans people should be denied healthcare, you are saying
I am disagreeing with your argument because it dismisses a genuine and serious form of medical care that should be afforded to all who need it.
The Mayo clinic, which is a respected source, disagrees with you on at least one of the surgeries being sought.
Your experience is valid.
And you shouldn’t dismiss the experiences and needs of others.
That’s my partner. Her teeth are absolutely on the list, but transition care is above it.
…and you still think dental shouldn’t be covered?
What aren’t you grasping about both of these things beeing freely available as the best option?
how many brain cells do you have? 2? 3? she said her partner has fucked teeth. they consider FFS more important. does that mean they dont want their fucked teeth fixed? NO. jesus fuck, get out of here you cis garbage
Love getting shit gate kept by fucking assholes, eat my entire ass
Healthcare is only rationed out out the way that it is because profiteering middle men make money by denying care
Citing a reputable source regarding the classification of a surgical procedure isn’t gatekeeping.
I am not going to debate shit with cis in the transgender comm.
Universal classifications of procedures are a tool for denying care inside a fucked up healthcare system, we all agree that our healthcare system is fucked. Nobody is saying that dental care shouldn’t also be a priority and it’s insulting having cis dumbasses roll up to try to be like "um aktually I’m simply citing sources at you "
Since you’re citing a US source, the medical system here is set up by insurance companies to deny care by classifying things as requiring specific diagnosis and all that does is restrict access to everyone and artificially drive up costs to benefit the profiteers. It’s also often structured to be incredibly harmful to poor people who need the care that’s being denied.
No offence but comments like this are only harmful to our community, and I know saying this might not change your mind on anything, but I’d feel wrong if I didn’t ask.
Don’t try to speak for all of us, I know many of us have been treated horribly for years simply because who we are, and as fucked as that is it doesn’t make it ok to put your trauma above others, in a way that may be affected by your personal bias.
The queer community has always been about outsiders, arguably even more so than simply about sex or gender, and in that vein I couldnt go to bed comfortably if I could gaurentee ffs to some of our sisters while leaving millions in constant physical pain, just like I feel looking in the mirror every day.
This is class warfare, not bum fights in an alleyway - cause we all know the upper class has rock solid solidarity, and we don’t stand a chance until we do as well.
fuck off with this pickme shit
I appreciate how you took ‘our’ in an individual sense, it takes a certain level of mental warping to achieve
Where did they take it to an individual sense? You’re being a “pickme” and arguing for respectability politics. I vehemently disagree that trans people need to make ourselves and our rights palatable to non-queer folks.
Transition surgery is healthcare, not cosmetic. That’s all I said.
This idea that trans healthcare trumps other healthcare needs is something the person I was talking to said, not something I said
I see, sorry to have read your intentions wrong and I agree with you.
Mostly I just wish Ontario would get its head out of its 1%'s ass and give us healthcare instead of this freenium bullshit
We got more mods on this comm now, all debatebros will be purged
Appreciated!