Can’t add anything to the Topic. So here is a picture of my Cat, if someone likes to calm their nerves.
Cat
I don’t get what you are trying to say. But every time I had a problem with trolls messing up a certain topic, it wasn’t the topic that was the problem. The problem was the trolls.
Dragon Rider is being accused of being a fake transgender person because people don’t like drags pronouns. The meme implies the so-called trolls are just polite trans people, and that the person being offended by said trans people are simply transphobic, which they are.
It’s hard to understand why anyone gets up in arms with anyone online where there are ways to block and ignore people.
That being said, personal pronouns are an awkward thing linguistically. (Maybe they won’t be in the future?) He. she and they are all pronouns recognized within English and have been for a long time. The farther you stray from those, the more likely you are to annoy people who have an idea of what language is in their heads. Those people could use a change of viewpoint of what language is - specifically that language is alive and changing - but transphobia might not be their real motivation. They’re wrong, but not necessarily the morally bad kind of wrong.
People being annoyed does not justify people harassing someone. If someone thinks neopronouns are weird or annoying on the internet then just don’t engage with them instead of commenting on it all the time.
Edit: I remember not liking neopronouns as a kid and I never went out of my way to bother anyone about it. Also dragon rider doesn’t force anyone to use drags pronouns, drag is fine with they/them
There have been a weird number of these increasingly convoluted posts, I think mostly in this community, where they’re like, “if _____ is ______, because ____ are _____ when ____s _____, you’re transphobic/ableist/etc.”
And it just feels like people are trying too hard to find something to deepen the problem of bigotry. The problem is already big. And it’s already kinda nuanced/vague because it involves other people and their history and intentions. That in itself already makes these issues kinda hard to pin down because they are amorphous. But these kind of posts and the others over the past few days definitely make it seem like people are just trying to find new ways to make problems more specific to their personal beliefs.
It just strikes me as a little disingenuous or odd.
All you have to do if you don’t like or understand something is move on. You didn’t need to come here and invalidate someones identity.
Edit:
It just strikes me as a little disingenuous or odd.
This just screams that you are being disingenuous yourself is what I mean.
This just screams that you are being disingenuous yourself
lol…um…how? Is this like a “you smelt it you dealt it” rule or something? There has been a sudden uptick in increasingly convoluted memes being posted. And I…pointed that out. That means I’m being disingenuous how, exactly? I’m being disingenuous about…people being disingenuous? What.
No, just the way you phrased everything sounded off and weird. Like it’s so very easy to not care about this issue and you show up and you cast doubt on people for no real reason, calling them disingenuous when you honestly you have no way to know. It was just such a tacked on and accusatory line.
Like yeah these memes if you can even call them that are very specific to this person, but all we have to do is not care and move on.
Imagine if drag is just a bit odd but being sincere, and they receive all these comments on every post about how drag are “fake” and a troll etc. What exactly are you contributing to then? Don’t comment. Move on.
I understand the post but the linked explanation makes 0 sense. What does that post have to do with this one?
spujb suggested that drag should try some simpler memes than the Cunk one from yesterday, until the people on 196 understand the “trans trolls” issue well enough to appreciate memes with more irony and layers in them. It’s a good point, most people don’t really think about transphobes accusing trans people of being trolls very often. Drag would like everyone to understand the issue well enough that when trans people are accused of trolling, most people are ready to think critically about the accusation. Transphobes like to claim legitimacy by saying their BS is in line with the best interests of trans people. Like TERFs crying about trans kids going through “invasive surgeries”. It’s able to fool a lot of people who aren’t familiar with the specific issue.
why do you refer to yourself in the third person? and why did you link to that comment thread at almost the end? i had to hit “show context” like 15 times to have any idea what the fuck was happening.
neither of these things are helping with people’s confusion. you are aggressively insisting that everyone understands and agrees with your viewpoint on a niche side of a niche community. you can’t expect people to understand the context without being deeeeep in that community. this is probably one of the most trans friendly spaces on the Internet. calling the space generally transphobic is a little too victim complexy.
anything that’s more of a safe space than this is going to be a complete and total echo chamber with no opposing or dissenting views on anything whatsoever. if you want to go somewhere where people can’t disagree with you, it sounds like your own discord server where you can ban people for that is the only option.
Drag uses person-independent drag/dragself pronouns.
i and me aren’t gendered pronouns. you’re just using the third person…
pronoun replacements like that are for he/him/her/herself/whatever. unless you’re implying that you aren’t you somehow? replacing first person pronouns like that just means you’re using the third person all the time.
why do you feel the need to do that? what is wrong with i and me? is "you’ out of bounds too?
That’s a whole lot of reply for having not even read what drag said. “person independent pronoun”. It’s a pronoun that functions indepent of first/second/third person case.
I reckon respecting pronouns means respecting pronouns, not just the ones you approve of. You wouldn’t try and tell somebody that their name or spelling thereof is wrong just because you don’t like it would ya?
I’m sorry i don’t know what person independent pronouns are. i am not deep in the trans community. I’m just trying to understand. being aggressive like this about genuinely complicated and nuanced things that 90% of the population doesn’t understand is a big part as what pushes people away from understanding.
why do they exist though? is it like a split personality thing? what does it mean to not identify with first person pronouns? just towing the line and doing what I’m told isn’t my style. i need to understand what I’m saying. it’s like the difference between using a math formula and understanding how it works. i don’t like using words that I don’t understand.
Drag would feel respected in drag’s gender identity if you used drag’s preferred second person pronouns, yes. But you don’t have to.
I’ll try, i don’t want to be disrespectful and I’m sorry if my tone has been a bit heavy.
can drag try to help me understand why drag feels that way? why don’t first person pronouns work for drag.
and man, it’s hard to avoid words that one uses through habit without thinking. I’ve had to edit this like five times to catch all of the “you’s”. it’s just not a layer of consciousness in my brain. i have to kind of break my brain to stop saying “you”. it feels like having to avoid saying “the”
First person pronouns work just fine for drag. Drag is a first person pronoun, and also a second and third person pronoun. That’s what person-independent means.
Drag likes it because it acknowledges drag’s identity as a dragon rider. Drag originally wanted to go with xi/drag person independent pronouns, which inflected differently depending on subject or object construction. But people confused drag for the Chinese president. So drag dropped the xi pronouns. A lot of people have complained they don’t like the drag pronouns, but most of them are reacting better than the first idea. Xi was a more traditional sounding subject form pronoun and people liked it even less.
This entire time I just thought you were talking in the third person as some sort of novelty account.
(They are)
was good advice apparently because, me being ‘one of the noobs not up to date on the latest issue’ i wasn’t really able to follow yesterday’s meme because it was built on too many layers i hadn’t been present for. This one tho i just think about and ‘yeah makes sense’.
Thank you for the affirmation. Drag is going to keep posting these in increasing complexity until you understand the Cunk meme
My problem with the cunk meme is that drag goes into one of the most trans-inclusive places on the internet (lemmy.blahai.zone) and just straight up shits on all Lemmy users as being transphobic (that’s what it sounds to me).
That makes no sense in that context.
Also I (as many others) have not had an interaction with a “person pretending to be a civilized trans person”. And drag has not posted a link proving they exist.
To me the “pretending to be a civilized trans person” part this sounds completely bonkers and I can’t understand how that “trolling” would work.
But yes, the Lisa Simpson meme makes sense in itself but is in dire need of an example more than an explanation.
The example is self-referential, drag is called a troll and told drag is pretending to be trans a lot, even though drag is pretty chill when you get to know drag.
Blahaj is trans inclusive, but Lemmy isn’t. Even in this thread, the Blahaj mods have had to remove comments by people from other instances. Drag thought 196’s users could agree that Lemmy at large is a lot less welcoming than Blahaj.
And drag doesn’t think there are any trolls who pretend to be respectful trans people. But there are people who think drag is a troll pretending to be a respectful trans people. They think being trans is an effective troll because they hate trans people. As you say, it doesn’t make much sense, except from a transphobic point of view.
Today drag will post another meme that drag hopes will explain more.
I don’t really agree about the idea of Lemmy as a whole being any less inclusive than any other corner of the internet. If anything, I would say it is slightly more inclusive (though some of it definitely is not genuine, like the entire instance that will go full white knight mode).
The example, and what went on in the comments here is my first experience with this particular brand of transphobia. I’ve honestly had to do almost zero moderation in the trans focused community I made.
The amount of blatant hate that has been thrown my way (threatening and insulting DMs etc) has been about proportional to the user base here.
I’m sorry that drag has been the target of this kind of garbage, and thanks for making me aware of it. I hope drag keeps up the fight and doesn’t let people get drag down.
i’m still kind of confused wtf is going on but yeah i guess this is certainly easier to read than last time
what hath i wrought 😭
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For the record the kitty litter thing was something a school had for emergency use in the case of something like a mass shooting where kids couldn’t leave their classroom to use the bathroom.
Even if you disbelieve drag’s identity, they are NOT the reason transphobia exists. TRANSPHOBES are the reason transphobia exists.
Every marginalized group has some faction that is willing the throw another smaller or more marginalized group under the bus. There are gays trying to claim legitimacy by fighting trans rights, and binary trans folks are saying we’d be a lot farther if nbs didn’t exist. This is just pandering to people who already hate us in the hopes that we can distract them from ourselves for a little while. It doesn’t work and it hurts people who should be our allies.
You mention the kitty litter thing, but you know that was fully a lie, right? It was there in case of an active shooter situation, and the people upset about it weren’t gesturing to people like drag, but to furries, most of whom (in reality) are just enjoying playing pretend. They will make up lies and people to get mad about with or without those people, so how could drag possibly be making this worse?
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If you are trans then your existence is ammo to transphobes. That’s kinda just… how it works.
Did you read my comment at all?
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“I don’t have a problem with trans people”
-process to list all their problems with trans people
Wow, way to prove drag’s bloody point.
You’re why they get dehumanized and divided from society.
Uh no, that would be the people doing the dehumanising ya donkey.
Yeah I promise you if furries vanished off the face of the earth transphobes would still be transphobes. Elon Musk is about to be directly involved in government and you think everything you mentioned here is a real obstacle for trans rights? AstroTurf detected blink twice
Enby here - the only one making me feel like I’m treated like a joke is you. Your “problems” are just victim-blaming Drag for the hate the trans community gets as a whole. Drag isn’t responsible for that, and the person repeating transphobic talking points right now is YOU.
Right now, you’re not being an ally. Either educate yourself, or stop speaking for us.
Fuck off transphobe
So anyone not within your frame of “people” is just trolling and shitting on people. damn, truly “token-effort”
judge what we don’t understand, instead of letting people just live.
Drag here isn’t harming anyone, and seemingly understands the confusion people get, and is not judging.
You know… your comment is precisely what has and will be said about trans people that conform to the gender roles, and NB’s that don’t fit inside them. It’s the thing terf say when “men go into bathroom! it’s horrible!”
Don’t be a part of the problem plz
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I disagree. There are abundant cis women and cis men who go to malls, schools, bars, and streets wearing clothes that they believe make themselves look sexy. If using someone’s sexually charged custom pronouns is considered participating in kink then I’d argue going outside wearing anything vaguely sexual like a crop top is also the same level of participating in kink and that is simply accepted by society.
Thank you for outlining this, I’ve never really thought about it that way
Just existing or looking appealing to sexual partners is not kink nor limited to cis individuals. What an awful argument. This individual is expecting others to help with their personal sexual arousal and playing victim when they refuse to participate. They are a goddamn sex pest.
I used cis individuals as representative of the majority (who accepts themselves) rather than an exclusive group.
The difference between a kink and a social custom is how much we’re used to it
Have to ask, what’s this kink?
I’ll assume it’s not neopronouns, as that’s just pronouns? And tbh I do not know drag, so I hadon’t know if there is anything else you’re referring to?
Dragon Fucking, apparently, and their pronoun is an extension of that.
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Drag uses drag/dragself pronouns because drag is a dragon rider. Drag has been in relationships with many dragons, both platonic and romantic. Even when drag was single, being a dragon rider was still part of drag.
“You can take the dog out of the fight but you can’t take the fight out of the dog” or something.
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👏👏👏
Actually, drag identifies as a dragon rider. Drag’s partner is the dragon.
The moment someone uses “I identify as […]”, lots of people get their panties in a bunch.
