Gerrymandering, voter ID, challenging voter registrations, disenfranchising felons, opposing mail-in voting, anonymous mailers threatening to arrest voters, closing polling stations in Democratic-leaning areas, challenging voters at the polls to gridlock the polling places, making the handing out of water to people waiting to vote (in red states - where it’s hot) illegal.
All the well-known cheating tactics of republiQans. Others are less well known. That’s one of the problems.
Democracy is a responsibility, not a romance. I want Bernie, but I’m voting, donating, and volunteering for Biden or (please) whoever the Democratic Nominee is. The point is to continually improve things…
It’s a quid pro quo. If a candidate cannot credibly tell someone they will materially improve their life enough to be worth missing a day of work, they’re not gonna get their vote.
… So why are you giving the DNC a pass on choking at the plate, repeatedly?
Note: No one has said to not vote blue. This is a discussion about increasing voter turnout, not blaming people for not wanting to engage with a broken system.
What do you consider “giving the DNC a pass” if you’re not saying don’t vote blue? No one has said they’re perfect, no one has said they’re the best we’ll ever have… they’re just saying it’s the best chance to improve things.
Just because they’re not saying what you want them to say doesn’t mean they’re giving the DNC a pass.
Assuming the people here are being genuine, the people replying to you show how true it is.
If we absolutely destroyed the Republican party the Overton window would move left leaving the Dems as the right wing party and opening the door for others. But they can’t see the long term view.
My view is that we vote as far left as feasible, keep getting involved in primaries, keep being engaged, and once we stomp out the more dangerous threat we can duke it out. But we all think we know best and I can’t make anyone else take my view.
Not everyone is a top candidate. That’s why she stands out. Not everyone is amazing. Vote anyway. Vote and then call up your representative if they suck.
She was a random no name dem at the time who knocked on doors and undercut the old fart dem incumbent for her district.
The point is that any able bodied motivated individual with the charisma who also fits the requirements for the role, say, even a bartender, can oust the old farts in office.
And this is exactly why we never get the turnout needed to trounce the Republicans. Less shitty matters to someone who shows up at the polls. It’s not a great motivator to get people to the polls.
I mean yeah trump is worse but the last good candidate the democrats had was Bernie, and that didn’t go well. I’ll vote blue no matter who but you gotta admit there’s been a dearth of good candidates.
The presidential election isn’t the only election. And, in fact, it’s not even close to the only important one. Most policy is made in legislation, the executive puts policy in motion and can direct it… but they don’t create laws.
Even the actions they do take have congressional oversight. Vote for more than just President and you might actually see change.
That works a hell of a lot better at the lower levels of representation. State and local races are where those “not blue (or red)” candidates have the best (and in most cases, only) chance of getting elected.
But that only happens if you show up. If all you do is bitch and moan about presidents and only vote once every four years… nothing will ever change. We’ll always just have Biden or Trump. Because you’ve shown that that’s all that matters to you.
I can however predict that you’ll continue to cherry pick statements to support your failing ideology of “fuck all y’all” to all our eventual downfall cause you can’t stomach things not being absolutely perfect with little to no effort on your part.
Republicans voters are much better at voting for their Handmaiden’s Tale candidates. Meanwhile, Democrats are told that anyone to the left of Eisenhower “isn’t electable” so we just have to swallow right-wingers like Biden and Hillary.
EDIT: I’m saying that Republican voters don’t care who’s “electable,” so they get what they want. We should try the same.
Dude I got a fucking email that was a trump ad and it just had a ‘random’ quote at the bottom. It was that fucking sleeping with the fishes quote. The ad was straight up threatening me to vote for Trump or else.
I think this chart, which I hope shows up, kind of gets to the point. Both reds pretty much ALWAYS vote. The conservative blues also always vote. That pretty much just leaves the progressive blues that need to be convinced to show up… But if they do show up, they vote blue.
Also notice that even if the Biden’s of the party could in fact get every centrist Republican to switch over and vote for them (and the biggest swing they actually achieved in these years was only a few percent) it still wouldn’t compare to the votes they’d get if they’d just embrace progressives and let the conservatives go.
That pretty much just leaves the progressive blues that need to be convinced to show up… But if they do show up, they vote blue.
not running shitty candidates with thoroughly fucked up voting/support history would be a great way to convince progressives to show up; the democrats had that with bernie and denied him 2x, so it doesn’t seem realistic that the democrats would ever change.
and it turns into a chicken and egg problem because democrats needs progressives to show up; but progressives won’t show up because democrats keep punching left.
Yeah… The more I think about it, the more I believe the first step is going to have to be to take over the DNC and fill it with progressives. No more supporting shitty conservatives to try and scrape a couple percent off the red column while shitting on the left.
Why is that? Do dems simply have less voter engagement or is this a split on age lines? Really interesting statistics though!
Gerrymandering, voter ID, challenging voter registrations, disenfranchising felons, opposing mail-in voting, anonymous mailers threatening to arrest voters, closing polling stations in Democratic-leaning areas, challenging voters at the polls to gridlock the polling places, making the handing out of water to people waiting to vote (in red states - where it’s hot) illegal.
All the well-known cheating tactics of republiQans. Others are less well known. That’s one of the problems.
Also democrats running shit candidates.
Democracy is a responsibility, not a romance. I want Bernie, but I’m voting, donating, and volunteering for Biden or (please) whoever the Democratic Nominee is. The point is to continually improve things…
It’s a quid pro quo. If a candidate cannot credibly tell someone they will materially improve their life enough to be worth missing a day of work, they’re not gonna get their vote.
Exactly, it’s a responsibility.
… So why are you giving the DNC a pass on choking at the plate, repeatedly?
Note: No one has said to not vote blue. This is a discussion about increasing voter turnout, not blaming people for not wanting to engage with a broken system.
What do you consider “giving the DNC a pass” if you’re not saying don’t vote blue? No one has said they’re perfect, no one has said they’re the best we’ll ever have… they’re just saying it’s the best chance to improve things.
Just because they’re not saying what you want them to say doesn’t mean they’re giving the DNC a pass.
Democrats fall in love. Republicans fall in line.
Assuming the people here are being genuine, the people replying to you show how true it is.
If we absolutely destroyed the Republican party the Overton window would move left leaving the Dems as the right wing party and opening the door for others. But they can’t see the long term view.
My view is that we vote as far left as feasible, keep getting involved in primaries, keep being engaged, and once we stomp out the more dangerous threat we can duke it out. But we all think we know best and I can’t make anyone else take my view.
This cannot be emphasized enough.
Even AOC was not their choice, she did it herself and beat the Dem choice.
Not everyone is a top candidate. That’s why she stands out. Not everyone is amazing. Vote anyway. Vote and then call up your representative if they suck.
Even if they don’t suck. Call them up and let them know.
Ok sure. If you have the time. Usually people don’t comment if things are going ok.
AOC? The same AOC that voted to prevent the rail union workers from striking?
Not the point.
She was a random no name dem at the time who knocked on doors and undercut the old fart dem incumbent for her district.
The point is that any able bodied motivated individual with the charisma who also fits the requirements for the role, say, even a bartender, can oust the old farts in office.
There is no shittier candidate than Trump. The there is MTG, Gaetz, Boebert, and so many others. The shittiest candidates I have ever seen.
That’s a solid ranking. Trump IS worse than Gaetz and MTG.
And he’s damn near as old as Biden. You think he’s not sundowning a little too when he starts rambling about sharks and shit?
And this is exactly why we never get the turnout needed to trounce the Republicans. Less shitty matters to someone who shows up at the polls. It’s not a great motivator to get people to the polls.
I mean yeah trump is worse but the last good candidate the democrats had was Bernie, and that didn’t go well. I’ll vote blue no matter who but you gotta admit there’s been a dearth of good candidates.
The presidential election isn’t the only election. And, in fact, it’s not even close to the only important one. Most policy is made in legislation, the executive puts policy in motion and can direct it… but they don’t create laws.
Even the actions they do take have congressional oversight. Vote for more than just President and you might actually see change.
Don’t worry I do and have been my whole adulthood.
But it’s not a binary thing…
Did you look at the post you’re commenting on?
More engagement is always better
So we should never settle for “better than a Republican”.
That works a hell of a lot better at the lower levels of representation. State and local races are where those “not blue (or red)” candidates have the best (and in most cases, only) chance of getting elected.
But that only happens if you show up. If all you do is bitch and moan about presidents and only vote once every four years… nothing will ever change. We’ll always just have Biden or Trump. Because you’ve shown that that’s all that matters to you.
Holy shit. I though Miss Cleo died!
What’s the lottery numbers for next week den?
I don’t do lottery numbers.
I can however predict that you’ll continue to cherry pick statements to support your failing ideology of “fuck all y’all” to all our eventual downfall cause you can’t stomach things not being absolutely perfect with little to no effort on your part.
Republicans voters are much better at voting for their Handmaiden’s Tale candidates. Meanwhile, Democrats are told that anyone to the left of Eisenhower “isn’t electable” so we just have to swallow right-wingers like Biden and Hillary.
EDIT: I’m saying that Republican voters don’t care who’s “electable,” so they get what they want. We should try the same.
Dude I got a fucking email that was a trump ad and it just had a ‘random’ quote at the bottom. It was that fucking sleeping with the fishes quote. The ad was straight up threatening me to vote for Trump or else.
I think this chart, which I hope shows up, kind of gets to the point. Both reds pretty much ALWAYS vote. The conservative blues also always vote. That pretty much just leaves the progressive blues that need to be convinced to show up… But if they do show up, they vote blue.
Also notice that even if the Biden’s of the party could in fact get every centrist Republican to switch over and vote for them (and the biggest swing they actually achieved in these years was only a few percent) it still wouldn’t compare to the votes they’d get if they’d just embrace progressives and let the conservatives go.
not running shitty candidates with thoroughly fucked up voting/support history would be a great way to convince progressives to show up; the democrats had that with bernie and denied him 2x, so it doesn’t seem realistic that the democrats would ever change.
and it turns into a chicken and egg problem because democrats needs progressives to show up; but progressives won’t show up because democrats keep punching left.
Yeah… The more I think about it, the more I believe the first step is going to have to be to take over the DNC and fill it with progressives. No more supporting shitty conservatives to try and scrape a couple percent off the red column while shitting on the left.