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I mean, of course USA has culture - it’s one of their most successful international exports!
I think when people complain about lack of culture they usually mean “old” culture, since USA as a country is still relatively young.
The pervasive, loud, aggressive “America is full of stupid yokels and has no culture herp derp” sentiment seems to have really ramped up in recent years. I really wonder if it’s a side effect of recent politicians pushing increasingly bizarre and oppressive agendas, and actually getting elected.
Maybe we deserve the disdain.
At least here in the UK there has almost always been a distaste for ‘americanisms’ among the middle-aged and older (conveniently forgetting the ones that entered common use during their youth.) Its largely just snobbery and old man yells at clouds.
It is also less that the states have no culture as they only have low culture. Again, ignoring that most ‘high culture’ is just old, and was low when it was new. Shakespeare wrote for the common folk, Dante’s Inferno was something of a hit piece on everyone he didn’t like. The Rite of Spring was hammered by critics who saw it as barberous to the point of insult and suggested women should not be permitted to see it, should it continue to be performed. The Count of Monte Cristo was serialized not unlike a comic book (and was abridged to not scandalise English speaking audiences.)
Yup, it’s just snobbery all around.
I would say a large contributor to America’s stupid yokle image are the people with the red caps.
Funnily enough some of shittier USA politics also get imported in other countries. :')
What kills me is when I run into people in other countries that are big Trump supporters… Like, I can understand looking at other countries’ politicians and maybe seeing one they like, and saying “hey, that one has some things going for them”. However, when I run into Trump fan boys from other countries… It hurts my head.
Its tough when Americas old culture is centered around greed or religion. Every bit of old culture has an awful undertone to it unless you were part of the right group.
I really wonder if it’s a side effect of recent politicians pushing increasingly bizarre and oppressive agendas
I bet it is. The President represents us, so when we elect a loud, hateful moron like Trump it makes our entire country look bad
I was disappointed that you guys didn’t just hold your nose and vote for Hillary (I know she won the pop vote).
Honestly Obama did wonders to repair your reputation; he was a great statesman. Hillary was a massive step down, but electing Trump…wow what an own goal.
Between BREXIT and Trump, the world got worse pretty quickly.
I am really hoping you get your act together and elect Harris, Trump is worse now than he was in 16 and 20. If he gets elected, it will further embolden the far right, but not just in the USA, the rise of fascism in Germany is not something the world needs again.
Eh, Hillary sucked, so I voted third party. I ended up voting for Biden in the next election in the extremely unlikely off-chance that he’d lose my state (I’m in a red state, but he completely lost the primary here, so there was a chance), but he ended up winning by a wide margin anyway. Even if every third party vote went to Clinton in my state, Trump still would’ve won by a wide margin.
The thing about Trump is that even Republicans didn’t think he could win, so nobody took him seriously, and all of that negative attention seemed to help him for some weird reason (seemed like an underdog).
elect Harris
Idk, Harris also sucks, and IMO she’s worse than Biden. I don’t like the term, but she absolutely seems like a “diversity hire” for Biden to improve his appeal to black and female voters, and now that she’s the presidential candidate, she’s demonstrating that she lacks substance. She’s basically parroting Biden’s policies, but watered down and with a worse sales pitch. The main things she has going for her are:
- black and female - Trump really suffers with those demographics
- not super old - she’s only 4 years younger than Obama though, so she’s not particularly young
- probably not going to pull a Jan 6
I’m going to vote third party again this year because Trump is going to win my state with 20% or more margin regardless (he has that R next to his name), but I do kind of hope that she wins. Not because I think she’ll be a good president (I think she’ll totally suck), but because I think she’ll be a letdown instead of an active force for evil. I hope Trump losing will put him out of the spotlight for good, and that the GOP will reform itself into something reasonable.
The thing is, I think the majority of the US population dislikes the options in this election and the last two elections, but our electoral process is so messed up that we end up with really bad options. Harris did terrible in 2020 and was last on my list of preferences in the primaries, yet now she’s the nominee.
Your voting system is a binary choice. It sucks, but it is what it is. Even in our elections, often it is choosing the least bad from a bunch of arseholes. From are outside perspective, I honestly can’t see a single thing trump an objectively better choice on, for the non-millionaire/billionaire class.
It is either a vote for one or a vote for the other, voting third party or not voting is exactly the same as voting for the winner.
Our voting system is a bit crap; STV is better than MMP, which is what we have. But you guys have made FPTP worse with the inclusion of the electorial college. Maybe it made sense a long time in the past…
It is either a vote for one or a vote for the other, voting third party or not voting is exactly the same as voting for the winner.
That’s just not true. Due to how the Electoral College works, unless you live in one of the swing states (usually about 8 states), your vote literally will not impact the outcome of the election, so the best way you can use it is to vote for a third party to inform your elected officials of your voting preferences. If a third party is getting a lot of support, they’ll change their policies a bit to cater to those voters. If you do live in a swing state, then yeah, pick the lesser of two evils.
I absolutely think the Electoral College has its place, but we need to be able to split votes. My state (Utah) is about 60% Republican, 35% Democrat, but it goes 100% to Republicans every time. We have 6 electoral college votes, so theoretically 3-4 should go to Republicans, 2-3 should go to Democrats, and one could go to a popular third party or flip between the two major party candidates. But no, all 6 go to the Republican candidate, even if they are unpopular (e.g. Trump got all 6 with only 45% of the vote in Utah in 2016). Some states allow splitting votes, but most don’t, so it ends up sucking way more than it should.
The benefit of an Electoral College is that it skews power from the high-population states toward the lower-population states, which I think has value (i.e. so we don’t screw over farmers too much). However, the all-or-nothing approach just leads to lower voter turnout (why vote if your vote won’t matter anyway?).
I think we should move toward proportional representation, both in the Electoral College and our state representatives. It’s absolutely silly that we can just gerrymander our way to a massive majority whenever a state has a simple majority (e.g. all four reps in Utah are Republican, despite having >1/4 of the population voting Democrat). I think we can do that w/o a Constitutional amendment, but neither party seems to want that because they like having clear majorities in most states.
It’s probably just trying to other/separate themselves from the horrors of usa that they’ve been awake to.
The pervasive, loud, aggressive “America is full of stupid yokels and has no culture herp derp” sentiment seems to have really ramped up in recent years.
we’re sick of the US being the dominant , assumend cultural force and want something else.
…then treasure yours and stop importing American culture?
IMO the big thing that America offers culturally is choices that don’t fit in the box of existing cultural norms. There’s no “American Breakfast” or “American Music” in the same way you can visually identify Finnish cinema or spot the commonalities in French cuisine.
And when I travel around Europe I see the influx of other cultures primarily via immigration (Berlin has döner, Britain has curries, Spain/Portugal has Moorish and African influence embedded) but at the same time I also see imported ‘American X’ without that immigration. Europeans have identified things they like that other cultures migrate with, but seemingly actively seeks out the things Americans make.
How popular are hamburgers or Taylor Swift in your area, compared to other Euro offerings like Gorjira or handball? France has a strong arts scene supported by the government, but the Palme d’Or rarely goes to their domestic films.
“It’s the free market” is honestly just such an American argument it’s spectacular. Chapeau to you and the others riding that particular horse. You illustrate the point perfectly.
Not really understanding where you saw a pro free market argument from what I said - my main point was that people like diverse options, and seek out variety, from within and without.
“stop importing American culture” - you blame the consumer here no?
“diverse” so long as you like the ubiquitous: hamburgers, Taylor swift, marvel movies. Increasing American cultural dominance is the opposite of diversity.
At some point to become a consumer your money and/or attention is voluntarily given to A Thing. That’s a choice. But with internet cookbooks, bandcamp, IMDb, CrunchyRoll, etc etc you have the ability to seek out precisely what interests you, with the only burden being discovery. Monoculture died with the internet, you being on Lenny is a testament to that.
Then whats your other argument, cause the Japanese kinda did the same thing with anime. Its what can best be described as market controlled cultural forces, nobody else was offering ultra violent animation so folks imported anime which filled a market niche. Same could be said of American cultural exports, we create a tonne of shit for ourselves and for some reason folks import it, the Brits kinda did the same thing with music back in the day.
I hate to break it to you, but you chose it, you bought it, and you keep choosing it.
The “we” that you speak of is clearly not as sick of it as you think.
You don’t have to insult us though. Just celebrate your own culture.
Honest question- Do nations other than the US work on ratings and box office sales also? For example, if more people watched independent French films or Japanese anime in your nation, wouldn’t they become the dominant influences?
Europe is all old culture, no new culture. America is all new culture, no old culture. Yes, I know that’s not 100% true, but how many European countries have their version of Hollywood, Disney or silicon valley? Iirc india, China and Japan all have their equivalents, where’s yours?. You just don’t spend anywhere near the same amount of money on movies, music and TV. On the opposite side, European art tends to be a lot more mature, however you have to spend money promoting it if you want to compete with the US.
Tbf America is nearly equivalent in size to the full West Europe and the culture difference between east and west coast of America is much smaller than the difference in culture between different European countries. With each country focusing on their own culture there, none of them will ever grow to the size of Hollywood. And with the smaller size, they have less content and less opportunities to captivate people from other places as well. It’s a full circle.
lol, America is nearly equal in size to ALL of Europe. they are within 5% of each other.
Japan is probably the next biggest cultural exporter after the US and isn’t that much bigger than Germany or Norway.
Lol, no.
how many European countries have their version of Hollywood
Most have them, but Europe speaks dozens of languages, so they are all comparatively small compared to the big English-speaking ones.
Disney
We mostly are still building on rehashes of old European folk tales, just like Disney. That said, for example Dutch “Disneyland” exists, you just never heard of it because you did not grow up with Max & Moritz, but Dutch kids did.
Silicon Valley
Well, that place is mostly about venture capitalists who originally got rich off neocolonialism doing dumping schemes on various industries. Their biggest, most impactful cultural achievement is internet ads.
You just don’t spend anywhere near the same amount of money on movies, music and TV.
We do, but we watch our own TV because you don’t watch French or Polish shows or games. Except when you do, and it gets translated, like with the Witcher. Also, with music, have you heard of Eurovision? Biggest song contest of the world, with even Australia participating? The one where Celine Dion, Julio Iglesias or ABBA got their start? You probably listen to a ton of songs that debuted there, you just don’t know it.
All I’m saying is that just because European low art is not big in the US - even though it is, like Harry Potter, Lego, basically all Western (as in Wild West) movies (they were Italian) - it does not mean it is not bigger in Europe than US art.
Edit: Why the downvotes though? I am not saying “US culture bad”, just that “European culture exists”. Could anyone elaborate on what’s so bad about what I’m saying?
I’m not taking issue with anything else, but I just have to say something about the last bit of what you said.
Westerns. No. Not all of them. Or even most of them are from Italy. That’s a special and significant subgenre called Spaghetti Westerns. Or Italian westerns, mostly because of Sergio Leone, these happened in the 60s and 70s. But if you look at the history of westerns and western movies, they were made in the US starting all the way back in the 1910s with silent films and continued on into the golden age of the 40s and 50s.
I stand corrected, not a big fan of them so I didn’t think about it too hard.
That kinda makes sense. At the same time, Brazil is just as young as USA but we have a ton of “old-ish” culture here. The beliefs and stories of the native population merged in with the ones from several incoming cultures and it’s now hard to really separate them, as some are much older than the country itself but are clearly inspired by stories from the old world as well. Some mythical creatures that are good examples of this: Saci, Curupira and the Headless Mule.
It might help if your country isn’t paranoid about such made up concepts as “cultural appropriation”. :)
Which is kinda amusing, since USA is literally made up of several different cultures.
The difference is that Brazil was a slave state were the slaves and local populations became the dominant culture. In the US, white settlers persecuted everyone that wasnt a white English/German protestant. Catholics were ostracized to the point where an entire colony was established to keep them. Millions of native people were slaughtered and their cultural identity stripped and suppressed. Africans taken from their homelands to be sold as property had their entire identity stripped from them while they worked the fields as slaves and denied their own culture. After “liberation” they were still second class citizens who lacked equal rights and had their interests and culutre viewed as lesser. Now those cultural elements have been commercialized, but it’s the descendants of the oppressors who profit, not the oppressed. Irish Catholics would be enraged and protest if London had a soccer team called “The Wimbledon Mickeys” or if the RUC did a river dance before official events.
The US is a multicultural state, but that is despite the best efforts of oir leaders, not because of them. I’ve met plenty of people who scream 'Build the Wall!" and call Mexicans all sorts of slurs, but are then happy to get blackout drunk on Corona and margaritas at a Mexican restaurant on Cinco De Mayo. Jazz music and the blues were forbidden from radio stations because they were associated with black communities, but suddenly white people started to incorporate elements of the blues into music, creating the mosern rockstar. And while Mic Jagger, Elvis Presley, and Steven Tyler are household names, Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong, and Muddy Waters are relagted to music history classes.
So your saying opposite teams won their countries, with the US being dominated by the oppressor and Brazil dominated by the oppressed?
That would change the perspective on older culture in each country.
I wouldn’t describe it as “winning” or “losing”. In the US, Canada, and Australia, the white majority rried to eradicate any non-conforming cultures, whereas in Latin America, Africa, and India, the white settlers in power were so drastically outnumbered that they used various forms of racial hierarchies amd segregation. When those colonial empires collapsed the governments became more representative of the local populations. They still oppressed (and continue to do so) various groups, but indigenous and historical cultures were able to survive due to large populations that were able to carry on those traditions.
Brazil actually merged the freed slaves into society because people at the time thought that over several generations, everybody would end up being white again. In a different way they were also trying to suppress them.
As for the indigenous population, before Portugal arrived here there was one large tribe already dominating all the others. The Portuguese then negotiated with that large tribe and that one tribe’s culture managed to survive, but the colonizers also had no respect for it or any of the others and grouped them all together as if being the same thing. The other cultures ended up being either absorbed or erased by that larger tribe.
Do you think people would feel better about how america handles culture if they would stop replacing their culture with things like shopping malls and business center?
Maybe the problem is more about Americans destroying culture and not replacing it with anything that will last or represents them.
I am aware I can phrase things poorly often, but thank you for replying with more to learn about.
The concept of cultural appropriation annoys me so much. Everywhere outside America people tend to love when their culture is appreciated by others that are not part of it.
It’s one thing when such culture was created as a safe space for a certain demographic that couldn’t be part of stuff from other cultures before - it’s understandable that they would hate to see that thing they created for themselves be taken over by the same people that kept them from other things before.
But then at some point someone claimed that participating in things from other cultures at all is bad and all the american whites who consider themselves allies thought “well it’s not really my place to say anything to oppose this” so instead they parroted that sentiment, not realizing it was also not their place to say anything to enforce that. In the end, we once again have the whites overriding the opinions of folks from other cultures - this time in a desparare effort to defend them (from something they see no need to be defended from).
Just look at what happened to Speedy Gonzales in Mexico for a good example of this.
What a lot of people hate is when their culture is white washed, and especially when it’s later on commercialized.
I was watching a video the other day about a neighborhood in the UK that spawned a genre of music out of the hard times they lived through. That music brought them some prosperity, but it also brought the attention of the government and hipsters. They started cleaning up the area, so more people wanted to move there. So they start cleaning it up more. Slowly but surely the area was fully gentrified and that culture is all but erased, and the area is now just another area that nobody can afford to live in.
Yeah, it seems people in this thread don’t actually know what cultural appropriation is. They seem to think that consuming outside culture, and taking inspiration from it, is cultural appropriation. Cultural appropriation is when a foreign culture takes a culture, or aspect of it, and then positions themselves as the owners of it.
Sometimes a term loses its intended meaning when it is misused enough. I myself have been accused of cultural appropriation before for creating a character of another culture in a video-game I was developing. Any time I see anyone being accused of it on the internet is also something similar.
I agree that actual cultural appropriation is bad, but the term has been misused so much that it is more often associated with simply consuming cultures that you’ve not inherited.
I agree, I think we need to work on a new term for it and weening off the use of the term in academic/professional circles, which will bleed into the lay population.
So like what Christianity did with the Pagans?
Yes, things like turning the myriad winter holidays of the pagans into christmas is appropriation. Promoting Elvis as the King of Rock is appropriation, etc.
Sounds like text book capitalism to me. What a fun system.
America has a lot of cultures and does a good job of blending them together in new, interesting ways. But one thing that America doesn’t have is history in depth, like most other countries. So each culture is treated as an identity by Americans because it’s how we get our history.
A common phrase in America is “I’m part (other nationality)” and that is shorthand for “this is what traditions I am familiar with and the foods I frequently eat.” Folks love their culture because it gives them their own personal history of their family running from somewhere and finding a chance here. Folks hold onto the adventures of Grandma and Pa as their own. So it makes sense that those same stories are what help inform us that taking something a culture has made and calling it your own name upsets quite a few people.
America is sensitive about cultural appropriation because few folks want to lose their own culture.
Old culture sounds like gatekeeping
“global cultural hegemon has no culture”
What’s the difference between yoghurt and the USA? A yoghurt can develop a culture after being left to rot for 250 years.
“Behold, someone so inundated in their own culture they can no longer recognize it.” Yeah, I’ve seen that Tumblr post too, you’re very funny and original.
Imo the flaw of both the op and this comment is it almost completely leaves out the reasons why it is “young”. Were the people who created the “new” culture settling on pristine virgin land? What could possibly have happened to the existing people who bore the “old” culture? Hmm
spoiler: the answer is that anglo saxon protestants were convinced of their superiority and almost uniquely violent, with few qualms about outright massacring and displacing natives. At least the spanish speaking catholics in south america intermarried and assimilated somewhat
The post: Can we just take a moment to acknowledge that there are at least some positives to be found in in the US?
The comments: No
Can’t blame us when Americans see any non-american as second class citizens. As per their laws.
The bad overshadows the good. And the good is still nothing to write home about either.
I would expect that there isn’t anything that you would write home about.
What do you mean? One relatively unique thing is that the US Constitution protects anyone physically on US soil, not just citizens. There is very little that treats physically present US citizens different from non-citizens beyond voting and certain welfare benefits.
That said, the police here can absolutely enforce the law unfairly. But that’s not really a problem with the law, but instead the individual police departments.
As an American, I think there’s a lot we can do better to be more fair, but I also think our system of laws is quite fair in general. We just need to get our police in line and change the “us vs them” mentality in our military and policing. I’d really like it if we would stop bombing people we don’t like and instead strive to open trade routes.
We provide some of the best and some of the worst this world has to offer. But, that’s also true of a lot of, if not all, countries.
Motherfucker ain’t even mention bubble gum.
American exceptionalism always made me cringe, but it makes me cringe more the older I get. I hate how presidential candidates feel like they have to call the US the most powerful, the greatest, and so on.
That’s true of any politician tbh, I’m indian and most of the elections are about how we were great and ancient and holy and blah blah.
True. One of the biggest parts of modern-day American exceptionalism is thinking that only America has these problems. People who claim to dislike America unknowingly put it on a pedestal as “the worst thing ever”, without acknowledging the very similar problems in their own backyard.
The main point of American exceptionalism is that “America is different from other countries”, to an advanced degree. Some people mean “good” when they say “different”, but it’s not necessary.
American exceptionalism is the belief that the United States is either distinctive, unique, or exemplary compared to other nations.
It’s telling how you qualified the exceptionalism as American, fellow citizen.
I love u baseball
Let’s not go overboard.
Honestly I’ve been getting more into baseball as I’ve gotten older. Just easy to chill out with.
Yeah that and golf. Both still kind of boring but ok in the background. Beer helps
Golf is so much better played with friends than watched
I like watching baseball in person, but I can’t stand it on TV. I like the little games and whatever on the TV between innings, and the shorter pitch clock has made the game a lot more enjoyable.
I mean, compare it to the other pro sports. Unless you live in a state with a hockey team, baseball is as good as it gets.
Basketball works anywhere.
Football and soccer are way better. In my home state, our women’s soccer team was one of the best in the country, and my current state has one of the best men’s soccer teams.
Hockey is cool, but there are a lot more options than just baseball. In fact, I almost never run into baseball fans anymore, it’s mostly football and basketball these days, with some soccer fans on the side.
The man has never seen a game, at most he hit a tennis ball with a bat-like object once and thought “that’s cool”
Lemmy Challenge: accept that there are good things among the 300 million people and 3.8 million square miles of the US
Difficulty: impossible
Fucking preach. I’ve never down voted so many comments on my own post before. Or any post honestly.
I think most USA hate comes from the US government’s history of global political interference. It’s understandable. For the same reason that Britain is still viewed negatively in many parts of the world.
Personally, I don’t hate the US or Americans generally. Things exported from the US whether physically, technologically, or culturally have played a major part of my life. It would be dumb to have a blanket hatred of anything American.
Most Americans I’ve met have been very friendly and cheerful.
Personally, I don’t hate the US or Americans generally.
~ Vietnamese Guy circa October, 1955
~ Chilean Guy circa September 10th, 1979
~ Iraqi Guy circa July, 1990
~ Palestinian Guy circa October 6th, 2023
Most Americans I’ve met have been very friendly and cheerful.
Most people I’ve met have been very friendly and cheerful. But that goes afield from “culture”. When you start digging into what constitutes a US cultural export - plastic Coca Cola bottles, Ford F-350s and Chevy Suburbans, whitewashed jazz music, 6-year-olds doing beauty pageants, CIA blacksites, Ads on top of Ads on top of Ads on top of Ads, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion - you lose a lot of the characteristic friendliness and start feeling a bit creeped out.
The young, curious, carefree American traveler is a delight. The old, cynical, covetous American businessman is less so.
You’re ignoring a lot of the cool stuff that America has put out:
- Broadway musicals
- alligator wrestling
- Cajun food (basically French, African, and Spanish fusion food) and American Pizza
- a wide variety of music genres (grunge, big band/swing, etc)
The best thing about America is the fusion of different cultures. It started as a refuse for the oppressed, and its culture reflects that. Unfortunately, it has itself become an oppressor in many ways, but that shouldn’t detract from its unique, blended culture.
The best thing about America is the fusion of different cultures.
Absolutely. But as you get closer to the heart of American mass media and corporate commercialism, I tend to see a flattening and homogenizing of those cultures until it comes out as a bland inoffensive gruel. American music is a great example of this phenomenon. The really gripping and transformative musical movements start on the periphery, often in migrant or other minority communities, and are treated with a range of indifference to outright hostility by the current central figures in the industry and in society as a whole.
The stark unabashed hatred of rap music, during the 80s and 90s comes to mind. Or the Boomer cultural response to GenX/Millennial grunge and metal. In more modern music, you see a strong influence among gender queer and Middle Eastern / East Asian artists, which has provoked a string of vitriolic social and political responses (Don’t Say Gay laws, mosque burnings, social media censorship of East Asian media, etc).
The fusion happens regardless, and eventually this stuff is normalized and digested by the central cultural institutions. Pop music transforms the more queer and colorful presentations of culture into something for rich white kids. Hong Kong and Bollywood hits get rewritten as mediocre midwestern knock-offs. Transgressive Rap and Heavy Metal and Punk music become anthems for the US military and patriotic pro-sports franchises and even ultra-orthodox political campaigns. Revolutionary ideas in comic books and pulp fiction get transmuted into mass marketed white nationalism and reactionary conservatism.
The media is diluted, thinned, and flattened until it is inoffensive and trite. That’s the end result of mainstream American incorporation of peripheral arts. Its the Chicken McNugget of culture. Ground up, overly processed, and stripped of flavor so as to be safe to distribute to the widest possible audience.
transformative musical movements start on the periphery
That’s true with everything. Do you think France always had highly regarded cuisine? No, they hired chefs from all around to come to France, and through that they developed a unique food culture. That’s the same general process for pretty much every important piece of culture. Someone creates something great, then the masses adopt it and mix it with existing things and the fusion becomes a part of the culture.
Look at the cowboy hat. In the 1800s, people moved out west to make a life for themselves, and their clothing styles and whatnot were fused with existing people in the area (e.g. the 10 gallon hat largely came from similar hats in Mexico at the time). It was derived from prior art, but it turned into something uniquely American, and is now a symbol for a certain part of the US.
The media is diluted, thinned, and flattened until it is inoffensive and trite
I disagree. The US has a very unique culture, and that culture is constantly evolving. The same happens in other regions as well. For example, Europeans aren’t still fighting wars over which country has the best classical composers (well, at least not the majority), they’ve largely moved on to newer genres that have evolved from older genres (e.g. I think Eurobeat derivatives are still popular?).
The underpinnings of American culture are still present in the current iteration of things: individual freedoms and exceptionalism. Look at modern rap, country, and pop, the songs are largely about breaking free of constraints and asserting your identity. Sometimes that comes from the queer end of the spectrum, and sometimes it’s about flashing money or cars in music videos, but it all has that distinctly American feel. If you look at K Pop videos, it’s all about tight choreography and fashion, which reflect the values in Korea. In Indian music from what I can tell, it’s all about the community, so large groups of dancers and traditional clothing, and that reflects value in India.
Culture evolves and is constantly adapted and changed, but the core identity is usually still apparent.
And yeah, pop culture tends to get diluted, which is why younger generations tend to push the envelope to “spice up” the bland. mass market media, which then get absorbed and becomes the current mass market media as that generation ages, and the cycle repeats.
Look at the cowboy hat.
A great example of the degradation of culture through Americanization. The modern bright-white cardboard stiff western hat is a facsimile of a facsimile mass produced so a bunch of oil tycoons could play-act as working class cattle rustlers with the oodles of money they harvested from the native population.
It was derived from prior art, but it turned into something uniquely American
When you watch a crowd of old white businessmen in cowboy hats talk about how we need to round up all those illegal border dwellers and send them back where they came from, you’re getting an American aesthetic on a very classically European attitude towards native people.
The US has a very unique culture, and that culture is constantly evolving.
The pastiche changes, but the underlying white nationalist nature of the culture endures. What you’re witnessing isn’t evolution so much as digestion. Foreign bodies picked clean of the meaty bits, broken down into their baser elements, and reincorporated into something the body finds palatable.
The modern Pop Music scene - where it sources material, how it packages and distributes the media, and who ultimately benefits from the windfall of popularity - hasn’t meaningfully changed in nearly a century. There’s a movie - Ma Rainey’s Black Bottom - that does an excellent job of illustrating this phenomenon. The harvesting of talent from disadvantaged communities, the flattening and homogenizing of the content, and the subsequent profiteering by corporate magnets that have only grown fatter and more burdensome on the industry to this day.
You get fed the same recirculated slop decade after decade via a narrow channel of hyper-sensationalized advertising. You’re going to listen to Dolly Pardon at the Super Bowl until she’s too old to walk, and by god you’re going to like it. You’re going to watch the Amy Winehouse biopic thirteen years after the industry chewed her up and spat her out and then you’re going to buy tickets to the next Britney Spears world tour right after that.
Culture evolves and is constantly adapted and changed
The wheel can’t spin forever. Eventually this thing America has built is going to break. But until it does, the Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer Christmas special will be airing in the same CBS timeslot its occupied since 1964.
a bunch of oil tycoons could play-act as working class cattle rustlers
The meaning of the hat has shifted over time. They’re not acting like cattle ranchers, they’re wearing it as a fashion statement about Texas culture.
And yeah, the talk about immigration is pretty disgusting, but that doesn’t change the fact that the US is a nation of immigrants, it just means they’re pointing the finger at the wrong problem. I hope this type of cultural issue irons itself out, because we should be championing more immigration, not less, and we can have that while maintaining strong borders. I think a lot of the people in that region understand that (i.e. ranchers and farmers rely on immigrant labor to keep costs low), it just needs to filter its way up.
white nationalist nature
Pfft, that has been consistently rebuffed. Yes, parts of the culture are still stuck in the era that brought us “Birth of a Nation,” but that’s changing even in some of the most stubborn parts of the country. I currently live in Utah (grew up elsewhere), and my grandmother (who grew up here) was quite racist, but since I’ve moved here, I’ve seen a huge shift in culture here. Our demographics are becoming more diverse, and our governor is openly talking about trans causes (though still doing nothing about it), so positive change is absolutely in the works. Some parts of the country seem to be going backwards, but the overall direction of the culture seems to be toward tolerance. As old stubborn people die off, they’ll be replaced with more tolerant generations. What we’re seeing, IMO, is a last ditch charge to hold on to that past culture.
harvesting of talent from disadvantaged communities, the flattening and homogenizing of the content
Aside from the profiteering, I think the rest is a good thing! We’re bringing culture from disadvantaged groups to the masses, which increases our overall cultural diversity. We get new role models and more general awareness, and there is usually a mix of “authentic” and “pop” varieties of whatever that new culture is, and the end result is more variety.
Dolly Pardon… Amy Winehouse… Britney Spears
Old stuff existing doesn’t mean new stuff can’t exist too. Old people will want to see performers they’re familiar with, and the same goes with young people. It’s especially interesting IMO when old and new get mixed, like an old performer performing a new song, or vice versa. That cross-pollination has value, and we’re increasingly doing these mashups because they’re interesting.
Eventually this thing America has built is going to break
You’re probably right. All empires fall and new empires take their place. The question is how long it’ll last, and what it’ll look like. It seems we’re going the direction of other countries getting their share of the spotlight (e.g. K-Pop is getting quite big, Japanese anime is everywhere), and I’m excited to see it. I don’t know if this is the beginning of the end, or if it’ll spur on another wave of change that’ll keep the US on top. Regardless, I think the US has an interesting culture, just like most countries and regions of the world.
To me, pointing out, “America has culture too!” Feels dismissive of how the most brilliant “American” cultures developed specifically in spite of being segregated from and exploited by the dominant American culture. It’s not called the bureau of native american affairs for a reason.
I guess I’m not ready to reclaim an American identity before all others.
Hell yeah
Fuck yeah mmmmmerica!!
America! Fuck yeah! Coming again to save the mother fuckin day yeah!
No love for Taylor Swift lol
Can someone explain the love for Taylor Swift to me? I know she makes music a lot of people enjoy. I’ve heard the stories of her giving big bonuses to those who work for her. I guess all I see is a billionaire with a great PR team.
Can someone explain the love for Taylor Swift to me?
I mean…
I know she makes music a lot of people enjoy.
Isn’t that enough? I don’t see the appeal of K-pop either but I do understand that some folks get way too deep into some rabbit holes.
On a non-musical level she’s either very genuine (private jet notwithstanding) or very good at appearing that way.
I don’t see how a music star being genuine or not matters. I don’t really care what her political or social views are, I care if her music is good or not. What really confuses me is why so many people get so interested in what celebrities have to say.
For policy, I look to politicians and journalists. For science, I look to scientists and academics. And so on. Looking for policy from a pop star is just stupid IMO.
In addition to some great comments, Swift seems genuine and sincere. There’s a great video going around of her arguing with her dad, literally crying that she can no longer keep her mouth shut about injustices perpetrated by the right.
I know jack about her music, but my little kids were blasting something intensely catchy. “That’s pretty cool! Who is that?” You guessed it, Swift.
She’s a “self-made” female billionaire. Her money isn’t from something like Walmart or Amazon, where it’s obvious how she’s exploiting people. It’s clear she’s very talented. And she seems smart and like she won’t get pushed around by scummy music execs (Taylor’s version).
Her music speaks to people and makes them feel like they’re understood and like they understand her. When she got a lot of hate (because most things teenage girls enjoy get a lot of hate), plenty of people felt personally attacked, and that made them more defensive and appreciative of her. She poked fun at the stereotypes making her more endearing.
She’s a “self-made” female billionaire. Her money isn’t from something like Walmart or Amazon
Does her parents money not count? She was born into money, she wasn’t self made. Unless “self making” yourself from a millionaire to a billionaire counts.
look, if we didn’t count billionaires who come from lesser echelons of rich people, we wouldn’t have any ‘self-made’ billionaires at all.
I’m sure we could think of a few. Notch was some random slob who made Minecraft. Jk Rowling just wrote some mediocre books at an opportune moment, but neither of her parents went to college.
Not many billionaires start out from not being millionaires.
That’s why self-made is in quotes. But many female billionaires are primarily heiresses little known or primarily known as a male billionaire’s daughter/wife/ex-wife. Swift turning millions into billions is about as self-made as any other billionaire.
She was born into money, she wasn’t self made.
I would argue that someone who turns $1 million into $1.001 billion is self made, in that there is a billion dollars of gain attributable to that person’s actions.
Yes, the opportunities available to someone who is allowed to pursue a dream at a young age without worrying about money is an advantage in show business (or really, any career field). But a lot of people seem not to realize just how many rich people there are. Something like 1 out of every 5 American households is worth more than $1 million in net worth, or 1 out of every 8 is worth more than $1 million without counting their primary residence.
In the end, Taylor Swift’s wealth is pretty much entirely tied up in the intangible personal brand, which she can monetize basically at will, and the valuable intellectual property that she owns, a song/recording catalog that is worth probably over a billion in itself. She built it with help, yes. But she built it.
That’s in contrast to people who own wealth that they didn’t themselves build at all, like inherited equity or cash flow in valuable companies that they aren’t actively working at, or that are valuable without their own involvement.
On the one hand, there’s no such thing as totally self made. On the other, if there’s a spectrum of how much wealth is actually earned through work, Taylor Swift’s net worth is probably more self made than the typical billionaire.
Foreigners might not get this post’s reason for existing, but with some people it really does feel like we’re supposed to rebuke everything we see on a day to day basis and sometimes everyone we see, or else we’re no better than Maga MacDougall who actively donates to AIPAC over here. Sometimes an exception is made for Black culture, but it’s usually a shallow one that unravels the minute they have to elaborate on their dislike for American culture. “Americans should be more cultured” is an okay criticism but a lot of people who say that aren’t satisfied unless we come to the conclusion that everything about our home is bad.
And I have never found an elaboration on “America has no culture” that wasn’t steeped in some combination of appeals to a pure and ideal past, ignorance of how migration shapes every culture, classism, and sometimes even racism. As far as I’m concerned, you’re a statue PFP if you say this.
Yes, that’s also how you’re supposed to act if you’re English. And we mostly do.
u
A lot of fun things listed, but they aren’t going to mean anything to any of us when we’re collectively burned out from working endlessly and incapable of retirement… thanks to America’s capitalists.
I was thinking how to express something similar for this post. I think its easiest to express in song:
And I’m ashamed to be an American where folks pretend their free And I won’t forget the men who lied, and stole that right from me And I’d gladly sit down next to you and protest her still today 'Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land Work to save the USA
I love when they feel the need to clarify apple cider, as opposed to all the other famous kinds of cider.
Pear and peach cider is fairly popular. Strawberry and plum cider is also good, but less common.
Do the guy also love US terrorism and foreign interference? Because that’s what people probably take most offence with. There is not a single additional nation on this planet that has couped to many democratically elected governments and replaced them with corrupt authoritarians that are more than willing to oppress and torture their people and cause civil wars and sell out their nation’s interest to US interests in exchange for power. The US is sole world leader in evil and hase been for over a hundred years, only briefly eclipsed by individuals like Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Kissinger.
Because as someone who is “deeply critical” of US his government and military, he really seems like jeans and jack o’lanterns have any weight when people call the globally most hated nation on earth a barbaric terrorist shithole.
And let’s not even start counting warcrimes or threats of acts of war towards their “allies”.
Fun fact: ask people to name three governments the US has couped. See what happens. Just three.
What do you suggest we Americans do? I can vouch for the fact that spending my entire life feeling ashamed of my country has not helped to make it better, despite doing my best to be an outspoken critic of American policy… so I’m hoping you can provide a suggestion for a viable path to redemption.
Protest. Create awareness. Because, you now, unlike the Chinese or Russians, Americans have the freedom to do so without getting vanished in re-education camps and gulags.
Americans have the freedom to do so without getting vanished in re-education camps and gulags.
Unless you were protesting against the murder of George Floyd, then you could indeed be picked up by unmarked vans with unmarked heavily armed guys inside.
If protests worked in the US we wouldn’t have had a second war with Iraq.
“i did my best to be an outspoken critic” is gonna play great with the survivors of Gaza
What would you have me do?
Most globally hated? Get fucked.
Fair enough, China and Russia managed to compete with the US in the last couple of years. Enjoy.
Russia
Yeaaah failed petrostate that can’t even hold its own territory in a full scale invasion of a far smaller neighboring country is competing with the US. Good luck with that one!
True, they really are no competition for the US.
Apparently USA culture also includes never using punctuation, correct spelling, or intelligent spacing.
